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Post by rabbit74 on Jun 1, 2017 14:11:36 GMT -6
I understand that the Horizon is men's basketball centric but most conferences want teams that are at least respectable in more than one sport. I would argue that one of the keys to the Summit's recent moving up the charts in men's basketball is that many of its schools take a broader approach to the "student athlete experience" and the resulting strength in all programs raises the visibility of all sports including men's basketball and thereby increases recruiting success in men's basketball as well as the other sports. As is clear from my name, I am an SDSU fan so will use a couple examples to illustrate. SDSU has always been considered a men's basketball school, but in our transition to Division I, men's basketball originally struggled. It was really the success of women's basketball and football that kept our fans involved and supportive of the total athletic program and the transition and helped to lead to the recruitment of better men's basketball players. Now the men's bb team is achieving considerable success, going to the Big Dance 4 of the last 6 years. A major contributor to the enthusiasm for athletics this past couple of years has been our wrestling team which finished 2nd in the Big XII conference and in the top 20 nationally. We had over 4000 fans at some of the matches. This past spring the athletic programs, donor banquet and auction raised over $1,000,000 in one night, the largest amount of any one night event reported in the country and largely because every fan knows that their favorite sport is being given great support no matter whether that sport is a high visibility sport or a minor sport. My point is that placing all of your emphasis on one sport may not be the pathway to success for even that one sport or to building a conference.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Jun 1, 2017 14:39:09 GMT -6
I am only quoting LeCrone. He made no mistake about it, men's basketball is the big factor on the sports side.
I would give you that women's basketball, m&w soccer, baseball, softball and volleyball could be a consideration as they could be self sustaining revenue sports. Golf, tennis, track, swimming and cross country probably should have no bearing on anything. The number of hoops recruits over the last decade coming to a HL school because someone is good at one of these sports can be counted on one hand. The amount of money some of these bring in from outside sources could also be counted on one hand.
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Post by PantherU.com on Jun 3, 2017 6:58:06 GMT -6
I am only quoting LeCrone. He made no mistake about it, men's basketball is the big factor on the sports side. I would give you that women's basketball, m&w soccer, baseball, softball and volleyball could be a consideration as they could be self sustaining revenue sports. Golf, tennis, track, swimming and cross country probably should have no bearing on anything. The number of hoops recruits over the last decade coming to a HL school because someone is good at one of these sports can be counted on one hand. The amount of money some of these bring in from outside sources could also be counted on one hand. Self-sustaining revenue sports? Sent from my SM-G930R4 using proboards |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2017 9:25:11 GMT -6
Link from sports360az.com: New Home for GCU?The Horizon League should be the next landing spot for Grand Canyon University. Valparaiso just left the Horizon for the Missouri Valley Conference so there is an opening. The ‘Lopes have out-grown the WAC and the West Coast Conference Presidents aren’t going to take in a For-Profit university. The Horizon has Detroit, Cleveland, and Milwaukee as hub cities for schools within the conference, nothing wrong with that, beats Bakersfield, Cedar City and Las Cruces. As to the idea that travel would be a problem, well, I’d kindly point out at that a direct three hour flight would get GCU into the Horizon about the same or quicker than a flight and bus trip. In a day and age where Universities are struggling with athletic budgets, GCU has to make sure that the Conference they belong to is in great health. Hard for anyone to convince me that the WAC is in that space…
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2017 19:49:54 GMT -6
Since UIC is out of the NCAA Baseball Tourney, maybe Jon LeCrone and the HL will now make an " Official" announcement of Robert Morris for '18-'19. It's already June.
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Post by PantherU.com on Jun 5, 2017 9:53:46 GMT -6
Since UIC is out of the NCAA Baseball Tourney, maybe Jon LeCrone and the HL will now make an " Official" announcement of Robert Morris for '18-'19. It's already June. I don't think they're anywhere near the point where all they need is to wait for someone to be done before they publicly invite a team. I do expect the invitation to become public at the same time as the acceptance. I don't think the HL would want to leave themselves open for the possibility of the Colonials changing their minds. Sent from my SM-G930R4 using proboards |
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Jun 7, 2017 12:11:33 GMT -6
I am only quoting LeCrone. He made no mistake about it, men's basketball is the big factor on the sports side. I would give you that women's basketball, m&w soccer, baseball, softball and volleyball could be a consideration as they could be self sustaining revenue sports. Golf, tennis, track, swimming and cross country probably should have no bearing on anything. The number of hoops recruits over the last decade coming to a HL school because someone is good at one of these sports can be counted on one hand. The amount of money some of these bring in from outside sources could also be counted on one hand. Self-sustaining revenue sports? Sent from my SM-G930R4 using proboards I said "could be self sustaining revenue sports." These sports are popular enough in the mainstream sports world that they could attract money from tickets, merchandise and donors to potentially not be a one way financial drain on their athletic departments. Soccer is gaining popularity in America. The Northwoods League uses horizon level baseball players and runs it as a business. The difference is college athletics is about sport and some of these other levels are about fan experience. I see GB women's hoops doing what they do on the financial side and think it could be done for other sports that aren't tour based but could bring in revenue, even if they are currently a long way from doing so now. |
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Jun 7, 2017 12:15:43 GMT -6
Just a quick Robert Morris question. Given that they haven't been very good against the Horizon League over the last 5+ years, they haven't been very good against anyone the last two years and that they are likely to affiliate some sports with the CAA is anyone concerned they won't actually help the Horizon League long term? The W/L record doesn't bother me but the potential CAA affiliation does. If they put their football and LaCrosse there, if the CAA goes to 12 in the future would the HL be at risk of loss again? If so that would make a stronger case for renting NMSU and CGU instead.
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Post by csudave on Jun 7, 2017 12:31:24 GMT -6
Self-sustaining revenue sports? Sent from my SM-G930R4 using proboards I said "could be self sustaining revenue sports." These sports are popular enough in the mainstream sports world that they could attract money from tickets, merchandise and donors to potentially not be a one way financial drain on their athletic departments. Soccer is gaining popularity in America. The Northwoods League uses horizon level baseball players and runs it as a business. The difference is college athletics is about sport and some of these other levels are about fan experience. I see GB women's hoops doing what they do on the financial side and think it could be done for other sports that aren't tour based but could bring in revenue, even if they are currently a long way from doing so now. The Northwoods League has two big advantages on the Horizon: 1- Weather: they play from June-August while we play March-May 2- In most NWL markets, this is the highest level of baseball people see. Every HL baseball school, save YSU, has a full season professional team in its backyard overlapping its schedule. UIC, Milwaukee, Oakland, and NKU play in major league markets while WSU competes with one of the most popular minor league teams in the country. |
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Jun 7, 2017 13:19:58 GMT -6
The weather I will give you. The Lakeshore Chinooks play 20 minutes from Miller Park and the Kenosha Kingfish team is 40 minutes away. They market these games as affordable interactive family fun or a cheap way to party. People aren't going to these games in the Milwaukee metro area for the baseball as much as it is convenient and affordable fun. College baseball could do the same, especially for weekend games in the April and May time period.
Also, some of the lower levels of baseball push the limits on apparel. There is some really cool stuff done at this level that could also be done in college.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 17:19:42 GMT -6
Just a quick Robert Morris question. Given that they haven't been very good against the Horizon League over the last 5+ years, they haven't been very good against anyone the last two years and that they are likely to affiliate some sports with the CAA is anyone concerned they won't actually help the Horizon League long term? The W/L record doesn't bother me but the potential CAA affiliation does. If they put their football and LaCrosse there, if the CAA goes to 12 in the future would the HL be at risk of loss again? If so that would make a stronger case for renting NMSU and CGU instead. Don't disagree, but I think if Robert Morris were to come aboard that would help their recruiting. Look what joining the Horizon League did for NKU's recruiting. Pittsburgh is a big city and RMU would be a good fit in the HL. I'm not concerned because I think they can help the HL long term. They do have a nice college basketball history. Better than UIC's and a couple other HL programs. They can get it back. Being in the HL and on ESPN did wonders for Oakland. I still think, even with RMU, the Horizon will try to bring GCU and NMSU aboard. They still could also add two more to get to 14 teams. |
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Post by ougrizz05 on Jun 7, 2017 18:47:23 GMT -6
Just a quick Robert Morris question. Given that they haven't been very good against the Horizon League over the last 5+ years, they haven't been very good against anyone the last two years and that they are likely to affiliate some sports with the CAA is anyone concerned they won't actually help the Horizon League long term? The W/L record doesn't bother me but the potential CAA affiliation does. If they put their football and LaCrosse there, if the CAA goes to 12 in the future would the HL be at risk of loss again? If so that would make a stronger case for renting NMSU and CGU instead. Don't disagree, but I think if Robert Morris were to come aboard that would help their recruiting. Look what joining the Horizon League did for NKU's recruiting. Pittsburgh is a big city and RMU would be a good fit in the HL. I'm not concerned because I think they can help the HL long term. They do have a nice college basketball history. Better than UIC's and a couple other HL programs. They can get it back. Being in the HL and on ESPN did wonders for Oakland. I still think, even with RMU, the Horizon will try to bring GCU and NMSU aboard. They still could also add two more to get to 14 teams. Being in the Horizon helped us but I don't know if it did wonders. Before the Horizon we went to 3 NCAA Tournaments in 7 years or so. And had 2 NBA players come through the doors including 1 2nd round draft pick. We were on a successful run for the better part of a decade and then we switched to the Horizon which was a higher profile league. Now being a rival to UD helped us gain some local attention. Having a local rival is much better that one a 15 hour drive away any day for numerous reasons. Espn 3 helped alot, but I believe The Summit League also has that now, so that's a wash. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 19:08:06 GMT -6
Don't disagree, but I think if Robert Morris were to come aboard that would help their recruiting. Look what joining the Horizon League did for NKU's recruiting. Pittsburgh is a big city and RMU would be a good fit in the HL. I'm not concerned because I think they can help the HL long term. They do have a nice college basketball history. Better than UIC's and a couple other HL programs. They can get it back. Being in the HL and on ESPN did wonders for Oakland. I still think, even with RMU, the Horizon will try to bring GCU and NMSU aboard. They still could also add two more to get to 14 teams. Being in the Horizon helped us but I don't know if it did wonders. Before the Horizon we went to 3 NCAA Tournaments in 7 years or so. And had 2 NBA players come through the doors including 1 2nd round draft pick. We were on a successful run for the better part of a decade and then we switched to the Horizon which was a higher profile league. Now being a rival to UD helped us gain some local attention. Having a local rival is much better that one a 15 hour drive away any day for numerous reasons. Espn 3 helped alot, but I believe The Summit League also has that now, so that's a wash. Wasn't being disrespectful, but making a point. Notwithstanding your Summit League success, most people outside of Michigan and the SL thought you guys were a college from Cali. Oakland didn't show up on ESPN or its family of networks with a "Summit League Game if the Week" or even semi-regularly. Being in the Horizon League forced the rivalry between Oakland and Detroit Mercy which has been a boon! Even your coach has said that being in the Horizon has helped Oakland's recruiting! |
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Post by ougrizz05 on Jun 8, 2017 14:18:53 GMT -6
Being in the Horizon helped us but I don't know if it did wonders. Before the Horizon we went to 3 NCAA Tournaments in 7 years or so. And had 2 NBA players come through the doors including 1 2nd round draft pick. We were on a successful run for the better part of a decade and then we switched to the Horizon which was a higher profile league. Now being a rival to UD helped us gain some local attention. Having a local rival is much better that one a 15 hour drive away any day for numerous reasons. Espn 3 helped alot, but I believe The Summit League also has that now, so that's a wash. Wasn't being disrespectful, but making a point. Notwithstanding your Summit League success, most people outside of Michigan and the SL thought you guys were a college from Cali. Oakland didn't show up on ESPN or its family of networks with a "Summit League Game if the Week" or even semi-regularly. Being in the Horizon League forced the rivalry between Oakland and Detroit Mercy which has been a boon! Even your coach has said that being in the Horizon has helped Oakland's recruiting! No worries Commish. And those are all good points your making. The Horizon has helped improve our program. |
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Post by commissioner on Jun 8, 2017 19:05:56 GMT -6
Wasn't being disrespectful, but making a point. Notwithstanding your Summit League success, most people outside of Michigan and the SL thought you guys were a college from Cali. Oakland didn't show up on ESPN or its family of networks with a "Summit League Game if the Week" or even semi-regularly. Being in the Horizon League forced the rivalry between Oakland and Detroit Mercy which has been a boon! Even your coach has said that being in the Horizon has helped Oakland's recruiting! No worries Commish. And those are all good points your making. The Horizon has helped improve our program. Commish?? |
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