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Post by pboy on Jan 25, 2022 9:31:07 GMT -6
Here’s an idea for a couple schools…. What about Niagara, Canisius, and St. Francis (PA)? With Robert Morris coming aboard, maybe we shift focus to the Pittsburgh and Buffalo markets?
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Post by vugrad1314 on Jan 25, 2022 9:31:20 GMT -6
I am confident Bellarmine will be interested and that they will be a good add. The Horizon League might very well find itself on a solid upswing very soon. Oakland Cleveland State Detroit and Youngstown State are doing increasingly better and Bellarmine should come in and perform very well if they do decide to move. If what we are seeing from Wright State and NKU is just a blip on the radar and they get back to form watch out. The league could very well be headed back towards the top 15-18 again certainly in the top 20. The more I read about USI's D1 ambitions though the less optimistic I am. Maybe they will go ahead with it but it seems like the students are against the fee increases that would be necessary. Unless there is another way to fund the transition, I'd guess they'll be staying in D2 for now. Even if they did go D1 I firmly believe they will begin their D1 era in the OVC not in the Horizon League.
As far as UIC I think a lot of how they will fare comes down to whether they choose to make more of a commitment to basketball with this move. Their overall athletics commitment is very solid but basketball is and has been lacking as we all know. It would be foolish to expect Loyola level results but if they can get to the point where they consistently provide at least a Q2 road game every year they will be a great add. Maybe they can be better than that but that's my baseline aspirational goal for them as a fan of an MVC school. Time will tell if that hope is reasonable but the potential for the Flames to get better is undeniable. I was down on them too until doing a little more research on them now I can at least see the potential and what the MVC might see in them beyond just a market presence. Of course potential is one thing performance is another. We'll see if it works out. It looks like addition by subtraction for the HL now but maybe that opinion will need to be reevaluated 5-10 years from now. If that happens though it would certainly beg the question why they aren't doing more in Men's basketball right now but the same could have been asked about Loyola. Sometimes a change in circumstances inspires other positive changes for a program. Maybe that will be the case here.
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Post by ougrizz05 on Jan 25, 2022 9:49:56 GMT -6
Here’s an idea for a couple schools…. What about Niagara, Canisius, and St. Francis (PA)? With Robert Morris coming aboard, maybe we shift focus to the Pittsburgh and Buffalo markets? I think the current geography of the league is perfectly fine. Shifting east will likely ruffle some feathers within the league. I don't see how an eastern shift benefits anybody but RMU, YSU, or any potential new eastern schools. For everyone else, it is additional travel and travel costs.
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Post by sycamorefan96 on Jan 25, 2022 11:38:19 GMT -6
The MVC only added UIC because they want to stay in Chicago really bad for some reason and they wanted another program with men's soccer. Besides that UIC offers nothing but potential. My only hope for them is that they can at least become a mid pack MVC program that isn't a boat anchor on the rest of the conference.
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Post by vugrad1314 on Jan 25, 2022 11:39:06 GMT -6
Here’s an idea for a couple schools…. What about Niagara, Canisius, and St. Francis (PA)? With Robert Morris coming aboard, maybe we shift focus to the Pittsburgh and Buffalo markets? I think the current geography of the league is perfectly fine. Shifting east will likely ruffle some feathers within the league. I don't see how an eastern shift benefits anybody but RMU, YSU, or any potential new eastern schools. For everyone else, it is additional travel and travel costs. Agreed. I'd be worried about the Wisconsin schools especially on this. If (and I'm not saying they are or aren't because I don't know) the Wisconsin schools aren't thrilled about losing their bridge to the rest of the conference and feeling a bit on an island so to speak further eastward expansion isn't going to make them very happy especially when the juice probably isn't worth the squeeze on those programs. I am curious how the MAAC AE and Big South deal with these membership transitions though. I'm guessing the Big South will just poach a MEAC school like NC Central for instance but the path forward for the other two is less clear. Maybe Merrimack or Central Connecticut State for the AE? Howard? A D2 callup? I remember Wagner being uninterested in the MAAC before and losing who would have been their travel partner in Monmouth probably doesn't help that so the MAAC might have to go the D2 route as well. Who knows? It's definitely going to be interesting.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Jan 25, 2022 14:11:48 GMT -6
Bellarmine would only 8th in men's basketball spending in the HL. They are 3rd most in the ASun and within $25,000 of being number one.
Niagara and Canisius would be last in basketball spending in the HL. Though Canisius would be a top tier in nickname!!
St Francis would tie GB in men's basketball spending and be third from last in the HL.
PFW, IUPUI and YSU are 3 of the lowest spenders in the HL. Most fans don't want more of them.
Bellarmine or any school coming in needs to have resources and a desire to spend them. Otherwise they are likely to not make an impact in the HL.
I think the HL is and will be a better league than the ASun. Bellarmine doesn't have to do anything different to be competitive there and they have some nice regional rivals. It is compelling to consider staying.
I think USI to the OVC is a lock. They don't do the things they have done to turn back now. The OVC being a bus league means the cost increase isn't as much and they can be competitive right away. It's an easier sell and then they can work to increase spending.
The OVC and MEAC did site visits to Chicago State. To the best of my knowledge the HL did not. Chicago State would love to be in this league. Make them prove some sustained success before ever considering them. They are the lowest hanging fruit to be picked whenever the HL wants to and now is not that time.
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Post by runnerdad on Jan 25, 2022 14:49:28 GMT -6
I think USI to the OVC is a lock. They don't do the things they have done to turn back now. The OVC being a bus league means the cost increase isn't as much and they can be competitive right away. It's an easier sell and then they can work to increase spending. The OVC and MEAC did site visits to Chicago State. To the best of my knowledge the HL did not. Chicago State would love to be in this league. Make them prove some sustained success before ever considering them. They are the lowest hanging fruit to be picked whenever the HL wants to and now is not that time. Looks like this is all quite likely now: USI going to the OVC, Chicago State still left out in the cold.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Jan 26, 2022 12:49:44 GMT -6
Now that UIC is officially leaving and it is getting closer to official that USI is going to the OVC it would seem it is Bellarmine or bust for the HL.
In that case I like travel partners of: NKU/BU IUPUI/PFW WSU/CSU
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Post by pboy on Jan 26, 2022 14:22:04 GMT -6
I kind of like St. Francis (PA), the more I think about it:
Green Bay / Milwaukee IUPUI / Ft. Wayne Detroit / Oakland Cleveland St / Youngstown St Wright State / Northern Kentucky Robert Morris / St. Francis (PA)
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Post by vugrad1314 on Jan 26, 2022 14:57:48 GMT -6
I don't see how anybody would take St Francis(PA) over Bellarmine although it does create a clean set of travel partners.
Green Bay Milwaukee
IUPUI Fort Wayne
Detroit Oakland
Bellarmine NKU
Youngstown State Robert Morris
Cleveland State Wright State
Another possible configuration is this (and the more I think about it this could be the one they go with)
Green Bay Milwaukee
Detroit Oakland
Fort Wayne Cleveland State
Wright State NKU
Youngstown State Robert Morris
IUPUI Bellarmine
I actually think this configuration might make more geographic sense.
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Post by rogobob77 on Jan 26, 2022 15:12:40 GMT -6
St. Francis would be a decent travel partner with RMU, just 95 miles away. But they don’t offer baseball, I’m guessing that might be a deal killer. Perhaps if the Horizon went to 14 schools adding St. Francis and two Kentucky schools (Bellarmine and Morehead State) it might be possible that they could be in the mix. My best guess is that the league will take one of the two Kentucky schools, with Bellarmine the preferred option because of their urban location which seems to be a part of the Horizon League general brand.
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Post by rogobob77 on Jan 26, 2022 21:44:45 GMT -6
I just got through listening to the HoriZone podcast that had Matt Brown of Extra Sports newsletter on as a guest. In speculating about Horizon expansion candidates, his sense seemed to be that Bellarmine might be the most logical addition. He mentioned that he didn’t think an invitation would be given to Chicago St. In response to a question, said he wasn’t aware of interest from Morehead State or SI-Edwardsville, and said he didn’t know if those schools were in a position financially to compete successfully in the Horizon. Mentioned Grand Valley State as a potential Horizon candidate if they move up from Division II, and said that they might also end up in the OVC.
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Post by vugrad1314 on Jan 27, 2022 11:50:34 GMT -6
I just got through listening to the HoriZone podcast that had Matt Brown of Extra Sports newsletter on as a guest. In speculating about Horizon expansion candidates, his sense seemed to be that Bellarmine might be the most logical addition. He mentioned that he didn’t think an invitation would be given to Chicago St. In response to a question, said he wasn’t aware of interest from Morehead State or SI-Edwardsville, and said he didn’t know if those schools were in a position financially to compete successfully in the Horizon. Mentioned Grand Valley State as a potential Horizon candidate if they move up from Division II, and said that they might also end up in the OVC. I'm 100% sure Matt Brown's sources for HL expansion are HL message boards. I don't know. Matt Brown has been nailing it left and right on realignment this year. He had Belmont to the MVC before anyone else as well as the rumors that the MVC was talking to UT-Arlington before anyone else (and we have every reason to believe that those discussions were quite serious). He also had information about Milwaukee and NKU when they were under consideration early in the process nobody else had shared. I think his record has been good with other conferences as well but he has absolutely nailed the process as far as the MVC is concerned. If he says Bellarmine is under consideration for the HL I believe it plus it makes good sense for both school and conference.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Jan 28, 2022 9:18:47 GMT -6
Wait, someone makes a living reading all of this stuff. Damn, I've been doing it for free for over a decade...lol
I have no idea if it is serious but the Grand Valley State idea is far more interesting to me than any school not named Bellarmine.
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Post by ougrizz05 on Jan 28, 2022 9:30:33 GMT -6
Wait, someone makes a living reading all of this stuff. Damn, I've been doing it for free for over a decade...lol I have no idea if it is serious but the Grand Valley State idea is far more interesting to me than any school not named Bellarmine. People have been talking about GVSU making the move to D1 for at least the last 10 years. I'll believe it when I see it. They are a football school anyway, so if they did make the jump I believe that would be a major focus for them. I'm not so sure about basketball.
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