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Post by phearthephoenix on Jan 4, 2022 14:44:29 GMT -6
With all signs pointing to UIC falling into an MVC invite, I thought it would be worthwhile to combine the conversation in the few existing threads into this one to get a feel for who you'd like to see the league replace them with. This would be who YOU would prefer, not what you think the league office will do.
I am assuming Murray State is also going to the MVC, but it's safe to say if they are dumb enough to only take UIC and UT-Arlington, then I'd hope like hell the HL adds Murray which would be an incredible upgrade over UIC. There's no way we can get that lucky, right?
Anyway, who would you like to see the league add if/when the Flames depart?
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Post by vugrad1314 on Jan 5, 2022 22:21:20 GMT -6
Serious question: IF the MVC adds UIC which would cut off Milwaukee and Green Bay from the rest of the conference what do those schools do? Do they stay in what is undeniably a better institutional fit for them in the HL? Do they advocate for a school like Chicago State to restore the bridge between the Wisconsin schools and the Indiana schools even though Chicago State is far from an ideal fit competitively? Or do they perhaps look at the Summit? (Admittedly that last option sounds crazy but they'd be something of a geographic outlier either way so maybe it's better to stay with the institutional fit and not pay exit fees especially since they'd be in one bid leagues either way. What do you think?)
As for the question posed in the thread I think Bellarmine or even going to 14 with Bellarmine\Lipscomb and either USI\Morehead State\Chicago State might make the most sense for the HL.
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Post by phearthephoenix on Jan 6, 2022 9:24:25 GMT -6
I think Bellarmine or Southern Indiana are the 2 most likely contenders if we expand. I think the HL is better off waiting to see how each school does in their D1 transition. We still have 11 schools. No reason to add anyone now just for the sake of expanding. I think this is where I am at right now as well. For men's basketball, losing UIC is basically an addition by subtraction so we might as well sit tight at 11 for awhile and see how things play out. Losing one boat anchor should help the league's metrics improve. I don't really have a preference on Bellarmine or Southern Indiana at this point, though I'd probably lean towards Bellarmine at the moment if the league is set on being at 12.
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Post by freewind on Jan 6, 2022 11:34:48 GMT -6
I'm always in favor for more schools. At this point, we can't get much worst than having to play H/H against 6 teams that are close to NET 300 or worse. (And losing UIC Does not help this). I would like to add Bell/USI/Morehead state and go down to like a 13-16 game conference schedule instead of 22. The waiting and see thing is probably bad because the rate this 30th ranked RPI conference is going, no one will want to join or continue to watch it.
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Post by vugrad1314 on Jan 6, 2022 12:07:20 GMT -6
I would think Bellarmine would be the frontrunner since they're already D1 assuming there is an appetite on their part for a conference move so soon after moving up. They also have done fairly well in basketball so far and add a new market in Louisville which is no doubt preferable to other options like Morehead State (as mentioned before bad finances bad location) and USI which is in Evansville and hasn't even moved up yet. I'd think if the league goes to 12 Bellarmine would be a good move/
I'm not thrilled about the MVC taking UIC to be honest. They check every box except the one that matters most: men's basketball. Hopefully they'll surprise me but I'm not optimistic. I do understand the need for the MVC to continue to be in Chicago and I do believe that the quality the league has added in Belmont and Murray State should allow the conference to continue to be successful even as UIC gets up to speed. As is the case with the current HL The most important thing would be internal improvement from current institutions to move the conference forward.
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Post by rogobob77 on Jan 6, 2022 21:31:12 GMT -6
14 teams for scheduling would be fine. Assume two divisions, seven schools in each. Play the six other teams in your division twice, play the other division teams once, that’s 19 conference games. I think current 22 games is a few too many, 19 is close to perfect. With geographical alignment typical in a divisional format, travel time and costs would probably be reduced.
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Post by metrosjags1969 on Jan 7, 2022 6:26:58 GMT -6
None of the schools sound particularly appealing, but based on the way the Horizon League acts, I'm going to go on a whim and say Southern Indiana just because of the Indiana bias. Frankly, UIndy isn't as successful of the two Indiana Division II programs, but they've made it clear they don't want to go to Division I and end up becoming irrelevant or even a laughingstock like IUPUI.
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Post by letsgoeagles on Jan 7, 2022 8:48:52 GMT -6
Uhhhh,,,, exactly how many final four appearances has UINDY made? How many national championships?
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Post by metrosjags1969 on Jan 7, 2022 16:33:58 GMT -6
Uhhhh,,,, exactly how many final four appearances has UINDY made? How many national championships? National champs in women's golf in 2015, four straight GLVC football titles in the 2010s, last appearance in a basketball tounament in 2015. Not as successful as Southern Indiana after I looked up the data and remembered, but at least one more national title than IUPUI.
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Post by commissioner on Jan 7, 2022 21:11:57 GMT -6
We're nearing the point where I would expect Bellarmine to turn down an invite.
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Post by letsgoeagles on Jan 8, 2022 8:39:08 GMT -6
Uhhhh,,,, exactly how many final four appearances has UINDY made? How many national championships? National champs in women's golf in 2015, four straight GLVC football titles in the 2010s, last appearance in a basketball tounament in 2015. Not as successful as Southern Indiana after I looked up the data and remembered, but at least one more national title than IUPUI. USI has had 4 final four appearance with 3 different coaches. Won one national championship. I suppose if I wanted to discuss other sports with the USI program I could also say the men's baseball team has won 2 national championships, and the woman's team has won one national championship.
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Post by freewind on Jan 9, 2022 6:35:59 GMT -6
Is there any good charts on conference payouts over the years? I know it probably varies quite a bit with the NCAA tourney money, but i'm thinking at this point that might be the only thing that keeps teams interested in the Horizon League. Edit: I found some on spending.
University Money Spent on Basketball:
Wright St. Horizon 3,330,147 Detroit Horizon 3,276,678 Robert Morris Horizon 2,661,978 Milwaukee Horizon 2,588,033 Northern Kentucky Horizon 2,470,374 UIC Horizon 2,248,503 Cleveland St. Horizon 2,140,282 Oakland Horizon 1,940,265 IUPUI Horizon 1,928,860 Green Bay Horizon 1,874,827 Youngstown St. Horizon 1,555,175 From 3ManWeave's site: onedrive.live.com/View.aspx?resid=3AF3A5DAD951E7D6!1543&authkey=!AFqemw_43Icwsq0 sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/financesShows overall athletic spending. IUPUI isn't too far off from others in the conference. It's definitely a branding thing.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Jan 9, 2022 18:31:19 GMT -6
Bellarmine had a good crowd for their game against EKU this weekend. In addition to the HL being really bad this year, this kind of game made me wonder if they would see the HL as a good home. They have a lot more games in the ASun against regional rivals than they would in the HL. I wouldn't want to be a non football school in a conference trying to be a football conference but the games against EKU, APSU and Lipscomb would probably be of more interest to their supporters than getting NKU back with a bunch of schools they don't care about.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Jan 9, 2022 18:36:51 GMT -6
IMO GB and UWM would only have interest in the Summit if the HL totally falls in the toilet and has no chance to get out.
The closest member is St Thomas and they are 4 to 5 hours away from both WI schools.
This becomes worse if WIU moves to the OVC which some people suggest is a possibility.
The HL members are not working together in an academic sense. GB draws very few students from IL and doesn't have a ton of alumni there either.
UIC leaving is not a reason for GB to look elsewhere. Adding Chicago State however is a reason to look elsewhere.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Jan 9, 2022 18:44:13 GMT -6
I voted stay at 11. The league needs to fix itself first and then see about adding members.
I feel like this covid year has showed us that travel partners and being equal isn't that important.
Plus having 22 conference games didn't change that most members still played non D1 games.
Get better as a group and then see who is available is what I would do.
If the league said that's not the plan and they are going to 12 members. Then I would go with USI. I am going to assume they can get spending where it needs to be. They have better facilities, a good fan base, look like 10 of the member schools, have success in other sports and most importantly have sustained success under many coaches in hoops.
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