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Post by HLFanaticus on Jul 25, 2017 12:03:10 GMT -6
Another article on the potential conference destination of RMU. Link per timesonline.com: Where could Robert Morris go?“Although it may spread out our geography, some people may think it increases cost,” LeCrone said. “If you got large enough, we believe in divisional play in all of the sports – with the exception of men’s basketball – really might help us save money.” LeCrone said the league has vetted about 20 potential candidates over the past few years but would not divulge if Robert Morris was one of them. He added that while the league wants to expand, there isn’t a specific timetable.
“I think you move at the pace that works for the institutions politically, economically,” LeCrone said. “There are no independent schools out there. So these schools are good partners in other conferences, so we want to be aware of that as well.”
The Horizon would actually reduce travel for RMU in basketball, thanks to the presence of five schools within 300 miles. Youngstown State would be a natural travel partner and conference rival. And Robert Morris’ current athletic budget would actually be the largest in the league, with its basketball budget sitting in the middle of the pack.
But it’s not a perfect fit. Even with the new arena, Robert Morris would have the smallest facility in the league. It would also have the smallest enrollment because much of the Horizon League consists of public universities with more than 15,000 students.Link per infogram.com:RMU in the MAAC vs RMU in the HorizonThe difference in travel miles for RMU would be 1,881 miles less in the HL (8,552 in the MAAC vs 6,671 in the HL- Round trip miles)
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Post by csudave on Jul 26, 2017 13:55:39 GMT -6
I like how the article fails to mention that the cause of RMU's "largest in the HL" athletic budget is largely due to football (only YSU sponsors), lacrosse (only CSU & Detroit), and hockey (nobody, to the best of my knowledge).
Don't get me wrong, RMU looks like one of the better realistic candidates left...I'm just pointing out a minor detail the author left out.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 21:59:15 GMT -6
Agreed. But they don't have to butter up the potential suitors for their program. Like you said, they do look like one of the better realistic candidates; located in a big city; contiguous with the rest of the HL; new facility going up.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Jul 31, 2017 13:37:23 GMT -6
This article has me torn on RMU. It doesn't exactly paint them to be the best fit for the HL. I respect their program and wouldn't be mad like I was with IUPUI but they certainly have some question marks.
One thing about adding Pittsburgh, these guys will add Pittsburgh like SIUE would add St. Louis. Which is to say that other than using the airport I don't think they will be getting a ton of media coverage in the market.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on May 4, 2019 9:11:21 GMT -6
It is probably just me but the actual pictures don't look quite as nice as the renderings and virtual tour did. Just a little darker and less modern looking than I was expecting.
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Post by vugrad1314 on Aug 5, 2019 21:35:36 GMT -6
So does the move by PFW mean RMU is close behind them to bring the HL to 12 or is the HL going to 11\20 to aid scheduling?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 7:13:19 GMT -6
I'd say the HL will stand pat for the foreseeable future. 11 teams can work as they go to a round robin 20 game mbb schedule. Dynamics have changed across the landscape. Going to 12 now means no true round robin so some teams might not ever develop true rivalries; Bobby Mo doesn't have baseball and a couple other sports the HL sponsors; and with the addition of Fort Wayne the League has become a bit more compact. Adding RMU now would give the league an Eastern leaning. At this point I'm actually good at staying with 11.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Aug 12, 2019 9:57:25 GMT -6
There are some advantages of a 12 team, 20 game schedule. When traveling in partners it would make this much easier and cost effective which I know most athletic departments like. The other would be allowing the top teams in the league to not have to play the bottom teams twice. That could be one way to potentially help the league's tournament seeding.
With that said the interesting thing about the league is that ten of the schools are set up to have a rival. GB/MKE, OU/UDM, IUPUI/PFW, CSU/YSU and WSU/NKU. Only UIC doesn't have a clear geographic rival. I know in GB the fans care about how Milwaukee did against the travel pair, it helps fuel the rivalry. So UIC could pair with PFW or IUPUI but it doesn't make the pairing as special as every team having to go to Indiana for one weekend.
Related to Robert Morris it would actually give the league two members ( including UIC) without a consistent rival and travel partner. I would like to see the Horizon League go to 12 members but I think they need to be very thoughtful with who the 12th will be. I don't want fixing one problem to create another.
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Post by vugrad1314 on Aug 12, 2019 13:20:50 GMT -6
Adding Robert Morris really doesn't do a lot to give the HL an eastern geographic lean. As I recall it's only like 45 minutes away from Youngstown State giving the Penguins a potential rival. Travel partners could look like this and I know it's not ideal to break up the Ohio and Indiana pairings but from a basketball standpoint you're not going to do much better than Robert Morris. The lack of baseball is a concern, but they check a lot of boxes competitively for the league's flagship sport.
Opens up new recruiting territory for students and athletes (Pittsburgh\western PA)
Nice new arena (that I really think was built to get them into another conference If not the HL certainly the MAAC)
Recent basketball success (I recently saw a graphic that shows that Robert Morris is one of the most successful road teams in the country since like 2011)
Recently took down Kentucky in the NIT (Yeah I know it was a bad Kentucky team and they weren't motivated but the point still stands that Robert Morris has the giant killer potential mid major leagues that are serious about being competitive look for)
The HL has been shifting eastward anyway since the YSU addition. The last three defections from the league have been replaced by schools that lay East of the defector (Butler\Oakland Loyola\NKU Valpo\IUPUI. PFW (and possibly RMU) would just be continuing an already long-established trend.
Sadly I don't see how you fix the lack of a ready rival for UIC. The only in-state school that would even register as a candidate would be SIUE and despite whatever potential some think they have they have a LONG way to go before they should be considered. The geography is pretty suitable for them in the OVC with many regional schools and they still aren't competitive. As the school continues to develop academically maybe it will start to realize gains athletically but that is not the case yet. This isn't a situation like PFW who has shown flashes of being a solid competitive program (at least in basketball) but is being crushed by travel expenses, SIUE has shown nothing yet and I wonder why they are mentioned at this time as an expansion candidate for any conference.
Here's how the pairings could look with an RMU addition (starting east to west)
RMU\YSU
PFW\CSU
WSU\NKU (I still think both of these schools are potential flight risks)
UIC\IUPUI
GB\Milwaukee
It's still a nice compact league that should get a shot in the arm from adding Robert Morris and a rejuvenated Fort Wayne due to the travel cost reductions. It might be enough to re-establish the Horizon League as firmly ahead of the Summit League once again, but so much of that depends on Fort Wayne realizing gains within their program from the travel cost savings of their league move. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the Mastadons are now saving hundreds of thousands of dollars per year by adding shorter trips to more regional rivals, not having to come any further north or west than eastern Wisconsin. I remember somebody saying that a move back to the Summit from the WAC would save UMKC some $400K per year. With every team in the HL now closer to PFW than it's closest SL opponent the savings must be on that level at least for them.
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Post by vugrad1314 on Aug 12, 2019 22:35:34 GMT -6
Oh man... Don't do that... The only program that has shown even a flash of potential as a program is Morehead State and they do not have a HL level program in terms of location\market or facilities. Go with the transitional programs (USI and Bellarmine) after they establish themselves if you must. They have at least shown some potential at the D2 level and give the league a presence decent markets as well as ready rivalries with NKU from their D2 days. They would be much better adds if LeCrone is willing to be patient.
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Post by commissioner on Aug 13, 2019 8:22:26 GMT -6
There are some advantages of a 12 team, 20 game schedule. When traveling in partners it would make this much easier and cost effective which I know most athletic departments like. The other would be allowing the top teams in the league to not have to play the bottom teams twice. That could be one way to potentially help the league's tournament seeding. With that said the interesting thing about the league is that ten of the schools are set up to have a rival. GB/MKE, OU/UDM, IUPUI/PFW, CSU/YSU and WSU/NKU. Only UIC doesn't have a clear geographic rival. I know in GB the fans care about how Milwaukee did against the travel pair, it helps fuel the rivalry. So UIC could pair with PFW or IUPUI but it doesn't make the pairing as special as every team having to go to Indiana for one weekend. Related to Robert Morris it would actually give the league two members ( including UIC) without a consistent rival and travel partner. I would like to see the Horizon League go to 12 members but I think they need to be very thoughtful with who the 12th will be. I don't want fixing one problem to create another. The obvious answer: Chicago State!
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Post by rogobob77 on Aug 13, 2019 19:34:54 GMT -6
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Post by vugrad1314 on Aug 14, 2019 20:54:33 GMT -6
Basketball is the main sport that would drive a school like Robert Morris to consider membership. As long as Wright State and NKU stay strong and continue to improve If Oakland becomes more consistent and if UIC UDM CSU and UWM can improve it should be a decent landing spot for the Colonials. Remember the Summit League got a big boost from UMKC leaving to go drag down somebody else's league for awhile. Now they are taking that school back and are losing Fort Wayne who has actually been one of their better schools the past several years. They are also strongly considering promoting Augustana from D2. I think the opportunity is there for the HL to assert itself above the SL once again if the schools take it. I think that was the most alarming thing for Robert Morris and other candidates: that the league was getting passed by the Summit League. That may not be true anymore.
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Post by vugrad1314 on Aug 15, 2019 19:35:27 GMT -6
You don't have to be a great conference You just have to be better or have a wider appeal than the NEC to get RMU. I rmember reading somewhere that travel is about the same for RMU in the NEC as it would be in the HL. I think that's pretty easy to accomplish
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Post by vugrad1314 on Aug 16, 2019 17:57:08 GMT -6
It's hard to do that as largely commuter schools that don't really have much pull in their respective markets and when half of your membership is beholden to another larger institution for funding and support (Milwaukee Green Bay Chicago IUPUI and Fort Wayne). To top it off you have a football first school (Youngstown State) a private school with a small fan base (UDM) A newbie to D1 (NKU) and I seem to recall some financial difficulties at both of the remaining Ohio schools (Wright State and Cleveland State though it seems like Wright State is weathering theirs pretty well.) I think for a lot of the league there's a lot to overcome for them to become great programs again, and really only a few schools are positioned to do it without major changes being made to the character and makeup of these institutions. For the record the HL has significantly outpaced the NEC in most every metric. For any NEC school--other sports potential headaches aside--the HL is a significant step up. Since Butler left after the 2011-2012 season the NEC has a HIGH RPI rating of 26 falling as far as 30. The HL has checked in higher than that in I believe all but one season. If Robert Morris cares about building and growing their program they would go to the HL. That new facility would fit right in and the program could help lead something of a renaissance for the conference. If the MVC were to expand past 12 (unlikely since we can't even seem to agree on getting to 12 in the first place) I would look to Wright State as one of the first schools I would consider. It's getting to the point where if schools like Belmont and the more pie in the sky options some float around like SLU Dayton and others) continue to turn us down, Wright State could and should get consideration as the MVC's #12. They bring a solid MBB budget and program a very good athletic profile and they aren't beholden to another university which is my main concern about UIC and Milwaukee as potential additions--there would always be a ceiling for how well the school can perform because the big wigs at U of I and Wisconsin don't want these schools to outshine the flagship .
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