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Post by kevinudm on Jun 29, 2017 7:56:55 GMT -6
www.news-sentinel.com/sports/column_the_time_is_now_for_fort_wayne_to_step_up_athletically_20170628Above is a link to a good article about IPFW from a local. Even though the Mastodons have had some basketball success in recent years (including last season's stunning win over Indiana) the bigger picture is that they are not nearly ready to step up to the HL. Doesn't mean they can't get there, but they need to decide if athletics are a priority. A few highlights: - IUPUI ... announced that it was leaving the Summit League for the Horizon League after two decades of membership. The switch will enhance IUPUI in every aspect, athletically or not.
The Jaguars' recruiting, attendance, marketability to both athletes and non-athletes, as well as their fiscal diligence, will all improve with the move. - The Mastodons now find themselves in a conference in which six of the remaining seven members are at least a 10-hour drive, and to add insult to the matter, Fort Wayne is the worst performer in that conference.
- Fort Wayne has geography, demographics, recruiting base, and a potentially magnificent new downtown arena on its side that could make it the envy of most mid-major athletic programs across the country. However, the university has failed to make any significant level of commitment to utilizing athletics (and all of those mentioned assets) to strengthen the university. That is why IUPUI is in a much more attractive position today than the Mastodons have any hope for in the near future.
- IPFW has spent over a decade taking a “halfway pregnant” approach to its participation athletically at the NCAA Division I level. It wants to be at the highest level, it just doesn't want to do what is necessary to be competitive there.... That is what separates IUPUI and Fort Wayne.
- For the third straight year, Fort Wayne finished dead last in the nine-team Summit League Commissioner's Cup competition, which evaluates performance in all sports.
The Mastodons were ninth among the men and ninth among the women this year.
The original mastodons went extinct 10,000 years ago, unable to cope with changing conditions. Their latter day namesakes can still determine their own future, but tough decisions lie ahead.
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Post by csudave on Jun 29, 2017 8:33:27 GMT -6
I wonder, given Fort Wayne's geographic isolation from the rest of the Summit, if they might consider reaching out to the OVC, especially if the MVC makes another move involving Murray next year.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Jun 29, 2017 8:38:30 GMT -6
While I understand I also think that article misses the point to a certain extent. What are the most important sports in the Horizon League? Men's hoops, baseball, women's hoops...is there anything else? Maybe soccer or volleyball but I don't think they have the power of the other three I mentioned.
Here is my point. Would anyone kick Green Bay out of the Horizon League knowing what you know? They have the best women's hoops team and one of the better men's programs for hoops. However, down the line for the rest of the sports they tend to offer the lowest cost sports the league sponsors, have a minimal number of sports and they have a bunch of part time coaches. This leads them to high turnover of coaches and poor performance in some of these sports. It leads to a poor standing in the overall league standings. Yet I would submit that GB has invested were the league matters most and nobody would want to bounce GB. I think Fort Wayne doesn't need to invest in cross country or add swimming, tennis or men's track & field teams. They need to invest a little bit in hoops and baseball to join the HL. It would be nice to be deep across the board but it is not imperative to be a HL member in my opinion.
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Post by kevinudm on Jun 29, 2017 11:50:54 GMT -6
Last season IPFW had a baseball RPI of 298 (out of 299 teams) and women's basketball was 316. IUPUI of course does not sponsor baseball but their women's basketball team had an RPI of 63 and might offer Green Bay some competition in the HL.
The problem with focusing exclusively or even primarily on men's basketball is that fortunes in any one sport can change over time, and sometimes even drop off suddenly. Murray St. has long been coveted by many posters on this board, but last year they had a losing record in basketball and an RPI of 231 (below IUPUI). They may bounce back but if they were in the HL now and basketball stayed down, the league would be saddled with an institution that was not a good fit and added no basketball cachet. Likewise if IPFW men's basketball took a step backwards, they would offer nothing at all to the HL.
UWGB is a good cultural fit in the HL; they have a natural rival in Milwaukee and of course they're a big asset in basketball, both men's and women's. But both your school and mine (Detroit Mercy) would be smart to upgrade their athletics beyond basketball. It's no fun for the student athletes to find their teams perpetually in the nether regions of the conference standings, and it's hard to drum up any interest or support from the university or the wider community.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Jun 30, 2017 10:05:10 GMT -6
I think it would be ideal to be deep at all sports but I really think it doesn't matter to the task at hand of being relevant in men's hoops.
People miss Butler but they were nationally relevant in men's cross country way before they were in basketball. That didn't get them to the Big East though, hoops success and a financial commitment to it did.
Valpo just left the HL for the MVC and I didn't read a single article, blog or forum post about how their last place men's and women's swimming & diving team hurt them or how their 9th place men's (last) and women's (second last) cross country teams hurt them. By all accounts around the country they ball at men's hoops, women's finished 9th, and that is all it took to move up the ladder and be generally accepted by fans and media for the MVC.
Conversely Cleveland State finished first in men's and women's golf as well as volleyball. That didn't save Gary Waters or even create any interest in men's basketball.
Youngstown State won the men's and women's indoor and outdoor track as well as men's cross country. Yet the constant chatter from fans around the league is their program isn't good enough and they are an anchor for the league. I don't see success in other sports motivating their fans.
Milwaukee is considered a dumpster fire, yet they still field relevant soccer, track & field, cross country and women's hoops teams. I don't disagree with the perception in Milwaukee but it all has to do with how men's basketball has been handled.
Fort Wayne needs to spend on hoops and baseball. If they do that nobody will care what their Olympic sports are doing and they might actually be a welcome addition to the HL.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 11:21:03 GMT -6
I think it would be ideal to be deep at all sports but I really think it doesn't matter to the task at hand of being relevant in men's hoops. People miss Butler but they were nationally relevant in men's cross country way before they were in basketball. That didn't get them to the Big East though, hoops success and a financial commitment to it did. Valpo just left the HL for the MVC and I didn't read a single article, blog or forum post about how their last place men's and women's swimming & diving team hurt them or how their 9th place men's (last) and women's (second last) cross country teams hurt them. By all accounts around the country they ball at men's hoops, women's finished 9th, and that is all it took to move up the ladder and be generally accepted by fans and media for the MVC. Conversely Cleveland State finished first in men's and women's golf as well as volleyball. That didn't save Gary Waters or even create any interest in men's basketball. Youngstown State won the men's and women's indoor and outdoor track as well as men's cross country. Yet the constant chatter from fans around the league is their program isn't good enough and they are an anchor for the league. I don't see success in other sports motivating their fans. Milwaukee is considered a dumpster fire, yet they still field relevant soccer, track & field, cross country and women's hoops teams. I don't disagree with the perception in Milwaukee but it all has to do with how men's basketball has been handled. Fort Wayne needs to spend on hoops and baseball. If they do that nobody will care what their Olympic sports are doing and they might actually be a welcome addition to the HL. Very enlightening post and very well said. I was going to mention the impact an overall bad athletic program would have on the other student-athletes of the "bad" sports. Your post sheds light on that aspect of a program as well. Just as successful programs making deep tourney runs helps the overall University admissions (both in numbers and quality of student), it also helps the quality of recruits across all athletic programs of that school. I would bet that now when each NKU coach of whatever sport it is he/she goes out to recruit for, the coach can go out and recruit a higher caliber of player. Also now when they mention NKU, a student would have more than likely heard of them. Now it wouldn't be too bad to join the track team or volleyball team of a school that just went to the NCAA, especially if they had a nice run. Consistency also plays a part for sustainability. At the mid-major level, that does put a ton of pressure on hoops programs. The upside though, is that it can turn an entire program around and set it up for a "conference promotion" or "conference relevancy" in the HL's case! gbphoenix1 already mentioned Butler. Also look at Xavier, Creighton, Wichita State, even DePaul (the Blue Demons used early success to get where they are now).
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Jun 30, 2017 12:59:45 GMT -6
Fort Wayne needs to spend on hoops and baseball. If they do that nobody will care what their Olympic sports are doing and they might actually be a welcome addition to the HL. Not even that. They need to spend on basketball and just field a baseball team. The HL schools that sponsor baseball just want more teams so we don't have to worry about losing our auto bid down the road. Even better from my point of view. I assumed the baseball teams would want them to be more competitive and was trying to be respectful.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 14:38:37 GMT -6
It would be nice if they were competitive though. If that was the case, our baseball conference RPI would've been higher and we could've gotten two teams in. Wright State was a team that was NCAA worthy. Just like our hoops league, if our teams suck in their OOC portion, it makes the overall conference weak and if you stumble against the weaker teams in conference play, you kill your at-large chances.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Dec 19, 2017 15:43:00 GMT -6
Well Fort Wayne won by 20 at Indiana last night. I know Indiana is down but that is probably better than any HL non conference wins. I may be jumping the gun here but Fort Wayne has my official stamp of approval. #11 #who's12?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 15:58:09 GMT -6
The one reason at this point they would even think of coming to the HL would be because of geography. The HL only has that to offer them at this point.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Dec 19, 2017 17:03:04 GMT -6
The one reason at this point they would even think of coming to the HL would be because of geography. The HL only has that to offer them at this point. I agree about geography being the reason but that is a darn good reason for them. They are virtually the geographic center of the Horizon League. They could bus everywhere for all conference games. They would be saving money that could be diverted to other aspects of their program. They could make an investment in their program without raising a penny. It would also help their recruiting to be able to play more games that family can easily drive to. Joining the HL is a good move for them. They are a solid program but still playing in a one bid Summit League. They can build their program better in the Horizon League and have a better chance at that one bid. In my opinion Milwaukee, Oakland, Cleveland State, Wright State and Northern Kentucky are on solid footing now. They have facilities and/or solid coaching staffs in place. I think YSU has a good coach but they are doing worse than before if that is possible. He has energy but lets see if he lives up to the hype. I think GB is also solid but it shakes the confidence a bit when you see a season like this. I worry about UIC, UDM and IUPUI. They have some talented players but don't seem to be trending up. In the case of UIC and Detroit I think they are the two worst coached teams in the league. Which given that they are only in years 3 and 2 respectively isn't a sign that positive change is on the horizon. So yes this season sucks for the HL but I don't think it is reason enough to not join a league that is a way better fit for their institution.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 17:20:55 GMT -6
Again, the "fit" would be the only reason for them to join. I think Robert Morris (which would probably be the only other team interested) may have second thoughts now.
As for being one of the worst coached teams, you're right. Coach McClain was given an extension by the outgoing AD, Jim Schmidt. Chancellor Amiridis and the new AD Garrett Klassy are watching. Amiridis likes winning and won't hesitate like what was done with Jimmy Collins and Howard Moore.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Aug 5, 2019 15:40:06 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 18:26:52 GMT -6
If it is an announcement of a move to the HL, then it's a really good job of not leaking anything. I won't even try to speculate. I'll just tune in.
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Post by kevinudm on Aug 5, 2019 18:35:18 GMT -6
Jeff Goodman, basketball analyst at Stadium (watchstadium.com) is tweeting that Purdue Fort Wayne is heading to the Horizon League. Could be true but very strange: - Weird timing for the announcement. Possibly the timing helps Fort Wayne meet some notice period requirement in their contract with the Summit?
- The new challenge series (double round robin) between the Horizon and Summit left me with the impression that the HL would stop poaching the Summit. If this move really happens, the HL will have two more members than the Summit (after UMKC rejoins the Summit) so the challenge series will be unbalanced. And unnecessary, as the HL can go to a 20 game conference slate.
- Fort Wayne has been passed over before by the HL and they haven't gotten any better over time. They finished eighth (of nine schools) last year in the Summit League Commissioner's Cup, easing past Western Illinois to avoid last place. Men's basketball was okay at 9-7 in the conference, but most of their teams were at the bottom of the standings. Women's basketball 3-13, baseball 2-28, softball 3-15.
If this really happens the next question is if the Horizon League is planning to stay at eleven, and odd number. Maybe someone is leaving and LeCrone wanted to get ahead of the news? Or a twelfth member is in the offing?
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