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Post by freewind on Nov 6, 2021 15:14:04 GMT -6
If the Horizon League is bent on only inviting teams that are eligible for the NCAA, a few years in the OVC/ASUN is probably for the best. Summit would be more stable conference but you would be a pretty far outlier. I'd prefer to see USI go to the summit because at least i know the Horizon could pick up USI whenever they wanted.
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Post by letsgoeagles on Dec 21, 2021 13:38:09 GMT -6
USI will probably be announcing early January if they will indeed pursue D-1. Here is hoping they will. Since it now seems the OVC will survive, I am supposing USI would end up with that league or the Horizon. Obviously, I am pulling for the Horizon. If the Horizon was interested in the Screaming Eagles, and could later invite Bellarmine, the Horizon would have a chance to become significantly better.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Dec 21, 2021 15:28:10 GMT -6
USI needs to increase overall athletic spending by $5,000,000 and increase basketball by at least 1,000,000 to be at the HL level.
Do you know if they've released any plans on how they plan to do that?
I would imagine some student fees, some university support and the rest from tickets or donations. Those first 2 are tricky for public schools though.
I do like the potential USI has as a replacement to UIC if the bigger regional names like Murray State are a non starter.
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Post by letsgoeagles on Dec 21, 2021 16:24:31 GMT -6
USI needs to increase overall athletic spending by $5,000,000 and increase basketball by at least 1,000,000 to be at the HL level. Do you know if they've released any plans on how they plan to do that? I would imagine some student fees, some university support and the rest from tickets or donations. Those first 2 are tricky for public schools though. I do like the potential USI has as a replacement to UIC if the bigger regional names like Murray State are a non starter. Yes, USi is aware of the financial component which will be needed to make the transition. Donations, both private and corporate will be investigated. It would be surprising if student fees were not raised. Their school president is quite 'academics first", but he sees the value and potential of moving to D-1. Because USI is a mostly a commuter school in a city which is starved for good basketball I do a great chance for success. They have great facilities and good leaders in the athletic department. The Horizon League would be seen in Evansville as an attractive conference. Though UE is still the top attraction in town, many of the fans follow both teams. Sadly, UE is struggling and the fans are getting older. No longer do many locals attend that school because of the cost. Though I firmly believe the city can and would support both teams, UE is going to have to start turning some things around rather quickly...especially if USI gets the additional funding they seek,
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Post by letsgoeagles on Dec 22, 2021 9:09:09 GMT -6
If the Horizon was interested in the Screaming Eagles, and could later invite Bellarmine, the Horizon would have a chance to become significantly better. LMFAO. The HL does really suck right now so it wouldn't take much to improve the conference but I'm pretty confident a sub .500 Bellarmine team and a D1 transitioning program aren't going to do jack shit for the HL except make scheduling easier. You know what, you might be right. If you are looking short term you probably are. Sadly, the Horizon league cannot really admit much anyone simply because they are not, in what I would say, in a "position of strength". Not unlike Wright State and Northern Kentucky, both of these schools, particularly USI, have had an extended period of success, at the D-2 level. Bellarmine had an outstanding first year in D-1. NKU has been quite solid. Both USI and Bellarmine are basketball schools in areas where basketball is the primary sport. Even with my admitted bias, if the Horizon league wanted to "roll the dice" this would not be a bad gamble....probably better than doing nothing. You can fully disagree with my premise, but I see a lot of potential with the addition of both those schools.
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Post by letsgoeagles on Dec 26, 2021 10:57:52 GMT -6
I don't have a problem with SIU or Bellarmine. I took offense that you think either school will make the conference significantly better. We are currently a 12 team conference. Adding 2 transitioning D1 programs has no chance in hell at making the conference significantly better. Just simple math tells you that. The HL has had 2 good teams and 10 crappy teams on average the last several years and the conference is a bottom 1/3 NCAA conference. Even if you both end up being good D1 programs having 4 good teams and 10 crappy teams still makes the HL a bottom 1/3 conference. The only way this conference improves is if we get rid of some of the schools who aren't trying (which isn't going to happen) or set some scheduling criteria and spending criteria for men's basketball (which isn't going to happen). There are too many teams in this conference that are just content with where they are. They don't have the ambition to improve. i agree most of what you wrote. But one thing that would stand out to me is there is never a guarantee to success for anything....never. The Horizon could remain with the status quo, and hope existing schools will improve the league's stature. Or, you could admit two transitioning teams with a long history of success in division two, in markets which fully support basketball. That is not a guarantee either. There are multiple teams in the Horizon, including your Wright State team, that had success at the Division 2 level. As stated earlier, if you are hoping for a big turn around with two transitioning teams into the HL short term, that is unlikely. Could it happen in long term? No guarantee either. Feel free to disagree all you like, but not sure why you would "take offense". I like the Horizon League, long before University of Sothern Indiana started receiving some interest. But as the land scape of the realignments continue, I don't think doing nothing would be the HL's best of choices. And you are correct, a significant turnaround may not happen. I am very familiar with both programs and their histories....even with my bias I would love to see what impact could happen. Thanks for reading.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Dec 26, 2021 10:59:29 GMT -6
I think Big D is spot on for why 14 isn't a better membership number than 12.
While there are teams I would prefer to invite if any members leave none are likely to accept.
The league could do a lot worse than USI of the teams that would accept an invite.
I would add that I don't think most of the current schools are content per se. I do think several are reading from the wrong spending and scheduling playbook. Some think they are doing the right things but in actuality aren't.
Green Bay is guilty but I promise nobody in leadership is content.
To that end Bellarmine is already showing they are reading from the wrong playbook. A bunch of road buy games paired with 4 non D1 home games. They have the #2 KenPom NonCon Strength of Schedule but are only around #220 in efficiency and are even lower in NET. Right now they look like any number of HL teams bordering on bottom third to anchor status.
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Post by letsgoeagles on Dec 26, 2021 12:29:52 GMT -6
We will probably know if USI will make the transition to D-1 by about mid-January. Their president, Dr. Ronald Rochon, is quite conservative. However, when it was reported he had been contacted by several Horizon League members, as well another conference, that seemed to capture his attention. Prior to this time, Dr. Rochon, nor the athletic staff, was never considering making the jump. Apparently, so it would seem, they (USI) are seen, at least by some, as an attractive possibility. I can tell you Dr. Rochon will not go forward if he believes USI would not benefit. It should go without saying USI administrators know all of this is going to come with a stiff price. I could be wrong, but I cannot imagine why USI would even pursue this idea if they didn't have some sort of idea of how they would raise the necessary funds. Further, USI is no further that a 8 hour bus trip to any HL school should they be fortunate enough to be invited. I have little doubt the OVC would take them right now if they would agree - but for obvious reasons I hope that does not happen. Perhaps some board members here could tell me any other schools that might possibly jump to the Horizon League??? I don't think any conference expands for no good reason. How much USI could move the needle, let's say 5 years down the road should they be admitted? Anyone's guess. I have already made mine.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Dec 26, 2021 21:17:41 GMT -6
I think it is safe to say Chicago State, SIU Edwardsville and Bellarmine are schools that would join the HL if asked.
I think schools like Morehead State, Lipscomb and St Francis PA would likely join if asked. Side note I list St Francis just because they are the only school I could think of that isn't that far away and FCS football isn't a big deal to the school. In no way should they be on the list.
So yeah that's not exactly the lineup of schools that makes the heart skip a beat.
UIC is likely to be leaving. Within short order I think USI or Bellarmine could bring what UIC currently brings to HL men's basketball.
I don't see a world in which the HL doesn't replace UIC. It's the HL for goodness sake, the easy road has historically looked good to the folks in Indianapolis.
I personally see more potential in USI than any school I mentioned in this post.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Dec 27, 2021 12:35:11 GMT -6
I totally agree that Bellarmine would be the choice from the league office.
They already spend enough money, it is a bigger market and they are 2 years into the process.
To my comment, Bellarmine is the easy road and I have no doubt the league will go that way even if it isn't the pick I would make.
I know NKU vs Bellarmine used to be a thing. With Bellarmine to Indy being just under 2 hours the league could go that way as well.
I wonder which travel partner fans would like to see. 1. IUPUI/Bellarmine, WSU/NKU 2. IUPUI/WSU, Bellarmine/NKU
What is the better set up for rivalries?
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Dec 28, 2021 10:08:42 GMT -6
Big D, while I would be hopeful the Horizon heaven you refer to would include Indiana State, Evansville and Valpo it seems more likely that we will see Purdue Northwest 😂
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Post by freewind on Dec 29, 2021 19:02:41 GMT -6
Gosh watching the Valley cope with the latest rumors is hard to watch as they sink farther into mediocrity. I kind of hope we add 3 to replace UIC. Not that adding any 3 teams will improve upon how bad this league is, but maybe we'll go towards the old A10 format where we only have to play each other once and we can schedule better opponents in our non-con. Murray State, USI, and Bellarmine would be ideal, but i'm afraid Big D is more right than wrong with Chicago State or a school like SIU Edwardsville or Western Illinois.
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Post by metrosjags1969 on Dec 30, 2021 11:07:18 GMT -6
I totally agree that Bellarmine would be the choice from the league office. They already spend enough money, it is a bigger market and they are 2 years into the process. To my comment, Bellarmine is the easy road and I have no doubt the league will go that way even if it isn't the pick I would make. I know NKU vs Bellarmine used to be a thing. With Bellarmine to Indy being just under 2 hours the league could go that way as well. I wonder which travel partner fans would like to see. 1. IUPUI/Bellarmine, WSU/NKU 2. IUPUI/WSU, Bellarmine/NKU What is the better set up for rivalries? I think most HL coaches would prefer to have IUPUI/WSU and Bellarmine/NKU as travel partners. It's less travel and I think most would prefer to not have to play NKU and WSU on the same road trip. FYI, I don't necessarily think that Bellarmine would be the first choice of the "league office". I think LeCrone and co would be in their version of heaven if they had an entire conference of schools from Indiana. Yeah, but let's be realistic here; after IU/Purdue/Notre Dame/Butler, you got yourselves the real runts of the litter in Division I. Ball State has no support from their fanbase whatsoever (which is a common problem with MAC sports, especially in football), Valpo is atrocious, Indiana State hasn't won in forever, Evansville hasn't won in forever, Purdue Fort Wayne has fans but no money, and IUPUI has all the money they can ask for but no interest whatsoever in growing athletics, which is the double whammy of having no fanbase and having never won anything in forever (I'm amazed the women's basketball team is successful right now with the lack of spotlight they get), which is the exact opposite of Fort Wayne. So you're talking about wanting to have all of garbage island. Over in Division II, Southern Indiana and UIndy seem to be investing heavily into athletics, and I can affirm that with UIndy, they regularly make the postseason in various sports. However, because the transition process is expensive and takes years before it can see results where the team can finally be able to contend for the postseason, it is not a decision that's taken lightly (well, duh). And D III's a clusterf***.
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Post by vugrad1314 on Jan 11, 2022 1:27:38 GMT -6
Might have to pump the breaks on the USI to D1 talk. I'm not sure how much sway this survey holds in the decision-making process and admittedly it's a small number of survey responses but that is not an encouraging sign for a school possibly looking to move up.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Jan 11, 2022 11:34:55 GMT -6
They had 2233 people respond. The groups were retirees, support staff, administration, faculty, current student athletes and current students.
To no surprise the first 4 groups were not in favor. Stop me if you have ever heard faculty and staff don't like athletics.
The current athletes and current students were split. I'm sure this is a mix of concerns such as being at correct competitive levels and increasing student fees.
Missing is the community interest which is larger than any of the groups surveyed.
Also, the current students have 4 years or less at USI. It's hard to answer but what will future students want? Kids who will be coming in at a higher price point because they will know the university is D1 and will have less of an issue with it. Basing your future on what less than 800 current students want seems silly.
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