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Post by kevinudm on Apr 13, 2019 10:00:37 GMT -6
VU-grad, I think that we're in agreement regarding UMKC and Omaha. Both universities would appeal to the HL presidents in that they are good institutional fits for the conference: quality universities, midwestern (more or less) and urban, medium sized. But even if they came in as travel partners they stretch the conference geography too far. Their athletics have been so-so (Omaha) or poor (UMKC). And while UMKC might ditch the WAC for either the Summit or the HL, I don't see Omaha moving. My point is that the HL is standing pat at 10 members because the two plausible adds that are the best institutional fits are problematic in other ways.
I don't see the HL sponsoring D2 move-ups (USI or Bellarmine) and it already passed over Fort Wayne. I've seen other postings suggesting that LeCrone adjusted the bid criteria for hosting the HL tournament because the city of Fort Wayne submitted the best compliant bid, and no one wanted the tournament there (which wouldn't be problematic if IPFW were coming to the conference). I don't believe that Bellarmine is a Jesuit university (even though St. Bellarmine was a Jesuit priest); and Detroit fans like me are still sufficiently deluded to see Marquette and Loyola as proper rivals, not D2 schools.
Reading the tea leaves, the HL is not expanding in the near term. The HL/Summit Challenge is a unique arrangement, the only double round robin challenge in college basketball. LeCrone wouldn't have done that if the conference was expanding and would have the ability to schedule 20 conference games on its own.
We still may see some realignment action in the coming months:
- The Big East stance has changed from "we're happy with 10 members" to "an additional member would allow us to schedule 20 conference games." Saint Louis seems to be the favorite.
- It makes zero sense for the Summit to have agreed to provide a surrogate tenth school for the HL/Summit challenge. What would the it mean if the surrogate went 2-0 or 0-2 and determined which conference won the challenge? So I think the Summit has plans for a tenth member, UMKC or Augustana.
- Augustana, Bellarmine and USI may each be looking to move up to D1, and the Summit, OVC, Atlantic Sun and WAC all have a history of sponsoring D2s
If any realignment is happening, it will likely kick off as the spring athletic season winds down. We'll know soon.
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Post by iwokeuplikethis on Apr 13, 2019 20:11:53 GMT -6
UNO is a hockey-first school. Their fans are hockey-first. Their resources are hockey-first. Their culture is hockey-first.
D1 hockey-first schools: North Dakota Denver Omaha Sacred Heart Quinnipiac Merrimack Boston University UMass Lowell New Hampshire Maine
Not company you want to keep. There’s a reason why a school like Denver, who’s WCC-esque in every institutional peripheral, fluctuates between 200-300 RPI nearly its entire existence.
Fort Wayne, USI, Bellarmine, & Robert Morris are all BB-first schools. Bet on them before you bet on Omaha - even if UNO fits the institutional profile.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2019 19:41:20 GMT -6
Agreed. Those schools are pretty much where the fans' bets are, considering Belmont, Murray St., NMSU & Grand Canyon are out of the question. Again it's just a matter of timing. It wouldn't be all that bad if somehow all Four came in. Louisville and Pittsburgh would be nice new markets.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Apr 15, 2019 14:58:50 GMT -6
The P6 leagues are working very hard to not play the mid major programs. With 20 game schedules and more conference challenges those games are going to be harder to come by. This impacts mid majors in several ways. It takes away opportunities for big wins against high majors. It takes away guaranteed pay checks that some mid majors have used to reinvest in their programs. It will create additional expense as mid majors will have to play against each other without much money coming in for travel.
With that as a backdrop if the HL leaders are not thinking about an expanded schedule beyond just the Horizon/Summit challenge then they aren't reading the tea leaves very well. At the end of the day our conference members are going to need to add low cost competitive games if they want to stay relevant.
Also, if the league is serious about institutional fits then it would seem that affiliating with the Purdue brand would be good for the other public institutions. While I didn't like the IUPUI over Fort Wayne addition I do understand it. I would say that Fort Wayne does way more for the Horizon League than UNO or UMKC will be likely to do anytime soon.
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Post by freewind on Sept 27, 2021 14:34:32 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2021 21:09:56 GMT -6
It's been 4 years since USI broke ground on their new arena. Now they're thinking about a D1 move. The question I have is which conference invited them, since they can't move up until they have an invite. They don't have football, so the ASUN is out. The OVC might have offered, but they've become even weaker than the HL with its recent losses. So that leaves the Horizon League as the front runner in my opinion.
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Post by kevinudm on Sept 27, 2021 21:53:57 GMT -6
The Horizon League has never sponsored a school's move from D2 to D1, and USI's resume doesn't look strong enough for it to be the exception. And the HL has no pressing need for a 13th member.
USI's announcement coincides with the turmoil at the OVC, and it's a reasonable assumption that the OVC is scrambling for new members - even non-football ones - and has offered to sponsor USI's transition. The HL can wait and watch. If USI transitions to D1 and is successful, the HL can likely attract USI at that time. That was the pattern with NKU.
The only wildcard here is, in fact, NKU. With Belmont leaving the OVC for the MVC, the MVC is likely seeking another addition to get to an even 12. NKU wouldn't be a bad choice for them, although it probably isn't their top target. But if NKU were to depart the HL, then the HL might consider USI as a replacement.
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Post by freewind on Sept 28, 2021 6:00:19 GMT -6
Bellarmine went to the ASUN and does not sponsor football, so it's a possibility. I don't think either school would stay long in that conference though. OVC is going to have a tough time convincing anyone to join at this point without some sort of standout commitment of its remaining members.
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Post by letsgoeagles on Oct 10, 2021 10:17:42 GMT -6
I have followed and supported the University of Southern Indiana basketball since about 1976...the year before they received their first d-2 NCAA tournament bid. It's been a lot of fun. I have also supported the University of Evansville Aces a lot longer than the Eagles. I mention this only as a preface to know I have a pretty good grasp of where I feel the two programs find themselves. The Horizon League would be the best choice for the Eagles, by far, if they would be fortunate enough to receive a bid from them. I rather suspect the OVC, despite USI not having a football program, would admit them rather quickly if they could. But I doubt USI would want to join a conference (OVC) that right now has more question marks than certainties. I don't see the ASUN a possibility since they now appear to be focused on football.
I could understand the hesitation of some in the Horizon League that would not want to add a d-2 school...who wants to continue to divide the NCAA money, right? But USI does have very great facilities, and a school president that would not be doing this if he didn't think he could make it a success. The Screaming Eagles have an excellent coach in Stan Gouard and I believe he would have the ability to attract top talent. That said, I think that those who might believe that USI would overtake UE as the top followed program in town, are IMHO very wrong. That just isn't going to happen...not in this generation anyway. UE is still picking up the pieces of a program that has been derailed most recently by the Walter McCarty incident, and by prior administrations who did not support athletics the way it had been previously. Even in these past few lean years, the Aces have over doubled USI's attendance. How much more USI would draw as being a D-1 school would be hard for me to estimate. As a basketball fan, I am familiar with the Horizon League and would enjoy seeing them all. But how the needle would move the average basketball fan to go watch USI play I really don't know. Some...perhaps...but a lot??? I doubt it. Hope I would be wrong. Thanks for reading
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Post by HLFanaticus on Oct 10, 2021 17:58:20 GMT -6
Welcome to the board letsgoeagles.
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Post by letsgoeagles on Oct 11, 2021 8:41:12 GMT -6
Welcome to the board letsgoeagles. Thank you. It was kind of you to reply. I like the Horizon League....Evansville's roots can be traced to here when they first formed the Midwestern City Conference. In general, I am a fan of mid-major basketball and D-2 as well. I hope the Horizon adds a new member from my neck of the woods very soon... Horizon league is a good league with solid schools and traditions.
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Post by vugrad1314 on Oct 15, 2021 14:12:48 GMT -6
I think both USI and Bellarmine are going to end up in the HL one day and it will be a good fit for all concerned. They would bring new markets a ready rivalry and the institutional and geographic fit is obvious especially for USI. Bellarmine is a bit of a tougher sell as they would be only the second private school in the league but I think being with other urban schools in large markets would help make them feel at home unless their identity is more southern in which case they will likely stay in the A-Sun. I doubt that's the case though especially since the A-Sun might lose Liberty one day soon which will really hurt their basketball profile. If I had to guess where USI will start their journey in D1 I think they will either join the OVC which could really use some members (I would bet that they have changed their by laws by now to allow for D2 callups which weren't allowed by them before) or they will follow in the footsteps of old rivals NKU and Bellarmine and start in the Atlantic Sun. I don't think the lack of football will be a hindrance to them as the A-Sun has enough members for an autobid though further expanding the footprint of a conference that stretches from Florida to Arkansas and up to Kentucky and Virginia might be a bit of a tough sell. We'll see but I am confident that USI will be in D1 somewhere very soon. Maybe even as soon as this year.
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Post by letsgoeagles on Nov 3, 2021 9:43:37 GMT -6
Was just reading yesterday that USI was approached by the commissioner of a Division 1 conference that prompted them investigating into going D-1. I am betting that came from the OVC given the proximity to their member schools, and, that the city of Evansville host their conference tournament. Hoping I am wrong. OVC is not nearly as attractive conference as the Horizon.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2021 21:45:54 GMT -6
In a previous post, I had a question as to which conference indeed invited the Eagles. I said it could very well had been the OVC, but the Horizon has the upper hand. I know the HL's MO is to wait until a D2 call up has been through the process, but in light of what's going on with expansion/realignment, I think the League would be wise to jump on potential members lickity split! I believe Southern Indiana, along with Bellarmine, has been on the HL radar for a while...probably as long as the idea of the Horizon going to as many as 14 teams. I personally don't think USI is all that interested in being a part of a dumpster fire of a League like the OVC which will have a number of low level DI programs and D2 call ups to replace those that left. Also, to prevent the Screagles from leaving, if any of this does transpire, the OVC might adopt some very stringent penalties for leaving the conference. This would make it financially tough to leave unless the HL helps out.
With the ASun focusing on football and that league now being affected by the realignment trickle down with Liberty and Jacksonville St. being approached, Bellarmine might not be long for the ASUN.
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Post by letsgoeagles on Nov 6, 2021 11:05:17 GMT -6
In a previous post, I had a question as to which conference indeed invited the Eagles. I said it could very well had been the OVC, but the Horizon has the upper hand. I know the HL's MO is to wait until a D2 call up has been through the process, but in light of what's going on with expansion/realignment, I think the League would be wise to jump on potential members lickity split! I believe Southern Indiana, along with Bellarmine, has been on the HL radar for a while...probably as long as the idea of the Horizon going to as many as 14 teams. I personally don't think USI is all that interested in being a part of a dumpster fire of a League like the OVC which will have a number of low level DI programs and D2 call ups to replace those that left. Also, to prevent the Screagles from leaving, if any of this does transpire, the OVC might adopt some very stringent penalties for leaving the conference. This would make it financially tough to leave unless the HL helps out. With the ASun focusing on football and that league now being affected by the realignment trickle down with Liberty and Jacksonville St. being approached, Bellarmine might not be long for the ASUN. I do know now that USI has been in direct communication with HL member, Northern Kentucky, about how they transitioned to D-1. So, perhaps, it could have been the Horizon League contacting USI. NKU and USI played against each other in the Great Lakes Valley Conference. Bellarmine as well, before they went D-1. That would be really something for all three teams to be reunited. All of them went to the D-2 finals multiple times, with USI and Bellarmine having won the National Championship. I really like the upside to the Horizon League and hope USI hears something soon. I agree totally about the OVC....USI would do better to stay D-2 than join that particular league the way it now stands.
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