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Post by gbphoenix1 on Apr 4, 2019 11:15:15 GMT -6
Just my opinion but if your school is an area that doesn't have D1 sports then competing for D2 titles might seem appealing. USI is in an area that has D1 programs near by and is always going to play second fiddle if they stay in D2.
Now if you don't think you can build your program up to gain people's attention because of the competition I would understand. I would also ask you to get new leadership that can find a way to compete.
Not related to USI but related to Bellarmine. If they do go D1 and it goes well the market is perfect to join the HL down the road. Not to be a jerk but is $10,000,000 enough to renovate Knights Hall? When I look at the pictures I see a tiny gym with some structural flaws. I can't imagine fixing both for only 10 million.
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Post by nodak on Apr 4, 2019 15:40:09 GMT -6
I guess you didn’t read your own article because their AD makes it pretty clear that they aren’t going D1 A school doesn't spend ten of millions on a new arena if DI is not their goal. They have to deny it until They get an offer in hand. See Lipscomb, Belmont, NKU.
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Post by nodak on Apr 4, 2019 15:41:33 GMT -6
Just my opinion but if your school is an area that doesn't have D1 sports then competing for D2 titles might seem appealing. USI is in an area that has D1 programs near by and is always going to play second fiddle if they stay in D2. Now if you don't think you can build your program up to gain people's attention because of the competition I would understand. I would also ask you to get new leadership that can find a way to compete. Not related to USI but related to Bellarmine. If they do go D1 and it goes well the market is perfect to join the HL down the road. Not to be a jerk but is $10,000,000 enough to renovate Knights Hall? When I look at the pictures I see a tiny gym with some structural flaws. I can't imagine fixing both for only 10 million. Bellarmine has other options in Louisville.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 18:57:19 GMT -6
I guess you didn’t read your own article because their AD makes it pretty clear that they aren’t going D1 A school doesn't spend ten of millions on a new arena if DI is not their goal. They have to deny it until They get an offer in hand. See Lipscomb, Belmont, NKU. I actually agree with nodak on this. USI will move up. It's just a matter of timing and an invite. Administration has to deny until all the "i's" are dotted and the "t's" are crossed. They've noticed the success of their former conference opponent NKU and probably figure D1 could work for them as well. Just a matter of time.
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Post by nodak on Apr 5, 2019 17:30:50 GMT -6
Wright State fans aren’t exactly welcoming and are down right jerks that think they no everything but don’t link anything.
This board doesn’t care about my or others opinions, so signing off.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2019 18:40:25 GMT -6
Wright State fans aren’t exactly welcoming and are down right jerks that think they no everything but don’t link anything. This board doesn’t care about my or others opinions, so signing off. Dude, are you serious?! You're signing off because of criticism and differing opinions? That's the nature of message boards. Yeah sure, Big DWSU and some others have their way of posting their opinions, but so what! Wright State has a vested interest in the status of the HL. Baseball could be affected, the level of Hoops could be affected and that affects recruiting and hiring quality coaches. I get that. It affects all of our teams. We've gone from a 10-12 rated league to a 20+ rated league. That's not good. Big D just expresses his feelings about it differently. You need to develop thicker skin.
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Post by iwokeuplikethis on Apr 7, 2019 2:19:08 GMT -6
USI has 7800 undergrads, an endowment over $100 million (doubling Indiana State), a beautiful new arena, and a solid D2 track record.
UE appears to be turning things around (league leader in attendance) but it is not inconceivable that if the Aces reverted back to previous regime’s apathy towards athletics that USI could surpass them with a perfect storm.
OVC’s tournament switch to Evansville couldn’t have been met with more rousing success. USI would be a very attractive, ready-made candidate for them if anyone left.
HL could corner the 3 Indiana zones much like the MVC has done and see if Fort Wayne/IUPUI/USI could overtake Valpo/ISU/UE. The 2nd/3rd/4th nicest arenas of the six would belong to the HL.
University presidents see value in increasing exposure in Chicago, Indiana, & Ohio.. Student recruitment,
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Post by vugrad1314 on Apr 7, 2019 8:26:50 GMT -6
To be fair the success of the OVC tournament is tied to one school and one school only: Murray State. The instant a conference like the MVC wises up and takes them in, those numbers will plummet hard. The only way to stop it is the OVC taking in USI and possibly Bellarmine to give themselves a stronger local presence post-Racers. In that case they could possibly save the attendance somewhat but let's not get it twisted. The success of the OVC Tournament in Evansville had more to do with the Racers than anything else.
Also remember that the Hulman Center is being renovated so it's very possible that the HL will end up with the rd 4th and 5th nicest arenas (I'm not even going to defend Valpo's facility as it is clearly severely lacking).
I wonder if it's possible that the HL could grow to as many as 14 with PFW, RMU, Bellarmine, and USI being added down the road. Would make for a stronger conference with lots of potential to grow. I think RMU would do great in a better league and PFW could have real potential if they can cut their travel costs which joining the HL would allow them to do. It also saves HL baseball and consolidates the conference around Wright State and NKU who appear to be the new leaders of the conference which should make them happy and less likely to look elsewhere. Furthermore, it preserves Indianapolis as the site for the conference tournament since most of these additions are close to the city and RMU is just a straight shot down I-70.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 20:40:16 GMT -6
I wonder if it's possible that the HL could grow to as many as 14 with PFW, RMU, Bellarmine, and USI being added down the road. Would make for a stronger conference with lots of potential to grow. I think RMU would do great in a better league and PFW could have real potential if they can cut their travel costs which joining the HL would allow them to do. It also saves HL baseball and consolidates the conference around Wright State and NKU who appear to be the new leaders of the conference which should make them happy and less likely to look elsewhere. Furthermore, it preserves Indianapolis as the site for the conference tournament since most of these additions are close to the city and RMU is just a straight shot down I-70. Not bad vugrad1314, but it appears at this point that Jonathan LeCrone was all talk when he expressed the HL could go to 12 or even 14 teams. Those would be 4 good additions. They help baseball by increasing it to 9 teams and allows the league to have patience while waiting on Bellarmine and USI to become eligible in basketball. Both of the D2 programs have been good in basketball, being ranked this past season and with USI going to the D2 Final Four. Believe me, the HL could do worse. I also understand the concern and frustration of BigDWSU and others over some HL fans' perceived fascination or infatuation with D2 teams. Let's face it though. The P6/P7 in college hoops are making it more difficult for the mid-majors to get into the Dance and to now even schedule those major teams as they close ranks by going to 20 conference games. This makes it hard for MMs to build a resume with possible Q1 games/wins and NET ratings.
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Post by vugrad1314 on Apr 8, 2019 18:34:25 GMT -6
We VU fans have plenty to say about LeCrone, believe me, but one thing you have to remember is that LeCrone works for the HL University presidents and if the presidents don't want a 14 team league with those teams in it, it simply will not happen. With at larges becoming few and far between for many leagues below the A10\MWC\MVC area (though the MVC hasn't produced one since 2016) it's probably a tough sell, though because the league is very urban in its focus and likes to have a strong presence in Indiana it's certainly possible. Strengthening your presence in Indiana and opening up Louisville and Pittsburgh would be big pluses. We're encountering the same frustrations every time the idea of adding Murray State to the MVC gets brought up. Everybody seems to want it except for the people that can actually make it happen and unfortunately that is all that matters. If the presidents don't want it it won't happen.
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Post by kevinudm on Apr 9, 2019 12:43:37 GMT -6
Could USI join the Horizon League? They would probably need to be paired with an invitation to IPFW to bring the conference to an even 12 members. Arguments can be made in favor of this proposition: - Both schools have had some basketball success (USI at a D2 level)
- Two new baseball schools
- USI has a shiny new arena
- Two new Indiana schools solidify the core of the HL geography. For travel partners, we would have UIC/IPFW and IUPUI/USI
- Restoration of the IUPUI/IPFW rivalry
- Two additional schools means the conference has two additional chances of someone making some noise in basketball, even if briefly, like FGCU or Stephen F Austin in recent years. Even if they don't have sustained success, it's fun while it lasts.
But the counter arguments are stronger. The merits and drawbacks of IPFW have been discussed elsewhere. But specific to USI: - While the conference name of "MCC" is a distant memory, the league still comprises universities in Midwestern cities. Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Dayton, (metro) Cincinnati. Evansville just doesn't cut it. (Nor Fort Wayne, for that matter).
- USI is a relatively small school, about 9,000 students. Of the public universities in the HL, only Green Bay is smaller.
- While adding an Indiana school sounds like an easy geographic adjustment, Evansville Indiana is far afield. It's a long ways from the nearest school and makes an awkward travel partner for IUPUI.
- Four year transition to D1. The HL doesn't do transitional schools for good reason. Even if USI ultimately becomes a strong mid-major, that won't happen before the mid 2020's at earliest.
- USI's new arena is beautiful, but small (seats 4700) by HL standards.
The Summit League and the OVC both sponsor D2 schools looking to move up and either could make a reasonable home for USI. The OVC basketball tournament is held in Evansville, but USI wouldn't be eligible to compete in it until 2024. The WAC is already sponsoring Cal Baptist and Dixie State and would be eager for another member. And the Sun Belt is also a plausible possibility. So USI has options. But the Horizon League is not one of them.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Apr 11, 2019 6:46:16 GMT -6
The most viable case for Fort Wayne and USI right now is adding more D1 games to the schedule. Along with that is adding pod conference scheduling to get our best teams more good games to improve seeding in the NCAA tournament.
If the league wants to expand for other reasons then I think progress has little to do with speed and a lot to do with direction. Are potential members heading in the right direction? I think both PFW and USI are.
PFW is literally the only non football playing mid major inside the footprint other than Chicago State. Any other member will stretch the foot print in some direction.
Evansville and Fort Wayne are the 103rd and 104th biggest media markets. They have metro areas of greater than 250,000 people. They aren't some of the big cities in the league but they are also likely to receive media attention in their markets unlike other member schools.
Also, USI to IUPUI is the same distance as IUPUI to UIC so that doesn't make it any worse than it is now.
I'm not saying the league should do this. I'm saying it is better than given credit for if they do want to expand now.
I'm not opposed to transition programs, Cal Baptist did a good job in the WAC. If a school can help our league, it is better to get them before they have deep roots down somewhere else.
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Post by kevinudm on Apr 12, 2019 12:49:05 GMT -6
GBPhoenix, it doesn't look like the HL is looking to add more D1 games. The existing double round robin provides 18 conference games, and the home-and-home challenge series with the Summit League means that there are a total of 20 games set prior to the HL schools scheduling their own non-con games. Even if the HL expanded beyond 10 schools it doesn't seem likely that they would expand the conference slate beyond 18.
My take on the announcement of the challenge series with the Summit was that the HL was sitting pat at 10 members for the foreseeable future. (And that the Summit has a 10th school in the works, either Augustana or UMKC).
Evansville and Ft. Wayne aren't tiny; as you point out their metro areas are greater than 250,000. But Green Bay and Dayton are well above 400,000, and they're the smallest metro areas of current members. None of this makes much difference for TV ratings or advertising revenues. But the HL Presidents will look for "institutional fit" of any proposed adds, and being located in/near a major midwestern city is part of that fit. The last three adds to the conference - Oakland, NKU and IUPUI - give you a pretty good idea of what LeCrone and the HL Presidents are looking for in new members.
The two plausible HL additions with the best fit are UMKC and Nebraska Omaha, even though they wouldn't do much to raise the basketball profile of the league. But as I said, it doesn't look like the HL is contemplating any expansion in the near term.
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Post by ougrizz05 on Apr 12, 2019 14:56:25 GMT -6
GBPhoenix, it doesn't look like the HL is looking to add more D1 games. The existing double round robin provides 18 conference games, and the home-and-home challenge series with the Summit League means that there are a total of 20 games set prior to the HL schools scheduling their own non-con games. Even if the HL expanded beyond 10 schools it doesn't seem likely that they would expand the conference slate beyond 18. My take on the announcement of the challenge series with the Summit was that the HL was sitting pat at 10 members for the foreseeable future. (And that the Summit has a 10th school in the works, either Augustana or UMKC). Evansville and Ft. Wayne aren't tiny; as you point out their metro areas are greater than 250,000. But Green Bay and Dayton are well above 400,000, and they're the smallest metro areas of current members. None of this makes much difference for TV ratings or advertising revenues. But the HL Presidents will look for "institutional fit" of any proposed adds, and being located in/near a major midwestern city is part of that fit. The last three adds to the conference - Oakland, NKU and IUPUI - give you a pretty good idea of what LeCrone and the HL Presidents are looking for in new members. The two plausible HL additions with the best fit are UMKC and Nebraska Omaha, even though they wouldn't do much to raise the basketball profile of the league. But as I said, it doesn't look like the HL is contemplating any expansion in the near term. The Horizon vs Summit challenge can be 9 vs 9 with us leaving a team at home. As far as additions, I like Omaha. They are a midsize urban school, they have invested in athletic facilities, and I think they have potential to be competitive in the horizon long term. I don't think UMKC offers much personally. My downside for both is distance. They will increase the distance all of our schools will travel.
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Post by vugrad1314 on Apr 13, 2019 7:36:06 GMT -6
UMKC and Omaha never made any sense in this league. I remember hearing those rumors when Valpo was still a member and I was not a fan. It's one thing to expand to a place that might bring some basketball success in or create some local\regional interest and generate rivalries. That's what make USI and Bellarmine attractive in my opinion because they have that potential with schools like NKU. USI with IUPUI (and maybe PFW) Bellarmine could have a nice rivalry with Detroit by virtue of both being private and I believe Jesuit. PFW brings a potentially successful program as does RMU (which could have a built in rivalry with YSU and potentially give them an excuse to get their basketball team off the ground. One of the reasons Omaha was rejected by the MVC was because of financial issues. Making them go all the way to Ohio for conference games is not going to help that at all. UMKC just needs to get better. UMKC and Omaha are great institutions they are not great programs. They might be one day and I see the potential in both of them but increasing travel costs significantly is not a very good strategy for garnering at large bids unless the payoff was like a New Mexico State GCU package. Since that's not on the table look within the footprint for strength. If the goal is strengthening the schedule by eliminating non-D1s there are more cost effective options with as good or better potential than UMKC and Omaha that can do that.
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