arbus
Fan
Retired Berserker
Posts: 11 
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Post by arbus on Mar 4, 2018 2:46:06 GMT -6
This is my new favorite picture.  |
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Post by commissioner on Mar 6, 2018 7:57:47 GMT -6
Purely from a mercenary standpoint, a Cleveland State win might benefit the league tonight. First, CSU needs something to build their program more than Wright State does. But more than that, CSU, if they win, will be a #16 seed in the play-in game. If you win the play-in game, it counts as a win for NCAA Tournament revenue shares, just as much as any other win in the tournament. So if CSU were to win the play-in and then get slaughtered by a #1 seed in the first round, we'd get two shares. If Wright State wins tonight, they'll probably be a #15 seed and lose by 12-20 points in the first round, with the league getting just one tournament share of revenue.
It's a shame nobody actually goes to Motor City Madness--it has been a crazy tournament, all 3 years, with lots of exciting if not always well-played games (like CSU-Oakland last night). The "home court" advantage has not materialized for Detroit and OU (a combined 1-6), while #1 seeds are 0-3. It's been a well-run event and now has a world class venue. The problems are that the format is stretched out over too many days and too many work days, and more importantly, it's simply not something that the Horizon fan base is interested in attending.
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Post by guinfan on Mar 6, 2018 10:07:48 GMT -6
I agree completely, I've been in Detroit for the tournament and have been underwhelmed with the turnout even with Oakland fans. I've hated the fri-tue format and I understand the women's tournament is in the same building along with having to work around the Red Wings/Pistons schedules. If the league is intent on keeping the current format they should have 1st round games on campus sites and the rest of the tournament moved to Detroit.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Mar 6, 2018 10:38:31 GMT -6
I agree Friday to Tuesday in a neutral site is hard to attend the entire event. Especially if that neutral site isn't a big tourist city. Other than that I love Motor City Madness. I think it is a great venue, run by a great organization, has produced exciting results, makes it easier for the teams to plan, gives them some money and treats them like they are in the big time.
I don't want campus site first round games. My reason is that it will hurt the attendance and planning for the neutral site. For example if GB isn't going to be there I am going to have a hard time justifying taking time away from work and family to go. Instead I would wait until after they win in the first round to buy tickets and book a hotel. I don't think I am the only one to think that way.
Valpo's gone so we don't have to cater to them anymore. The number 1 seed is 0-2 in this play on Saturday format and 0-1 with the old double bye. A traditional format needs to be used.
Let's just get this to a Thursday to Sunday starting at 5:30 on Thursday. Play 7-10 and 8-9.
Friday then can start at 12:30 and play a normal 8 team single elimination format to Sunday. If the league goes to 12 teams then add two more games on Thursday with 6-11 and 5-12 games.
I honestly think if you did that you might start getting more people. Everyone in the footprint could leave on Thursday and be home on Sunday. You know your team will play at least one game. You only need two days off of work and 3 nights in a hotel to see the entire event. This is such a simple thing to do and the success of this event would improve.
If you still want to have the women's teams there find an alternate venue in Detroit for the first two rounds and then play the semi finals and finals on Saturday and Sunday at LCA.
The old format didn't produce NCAA tourney wins, good teams in the league at that time produced wins. Those good teams would find a way to win no matter what in my opinion. If you can't beat a lower seed in a neutral site, you aren't beating a P7 team in the big dance IMO.
This event needs to tweak the dates and then it will have a chance to grow and be sustainable.
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Post by bear2020 on Mar 6, 2018 18:02:15 GMT -6
Its not a bad idea to have the first round may be more at campus sites then just have maybe the semis and final in Detroit or wherever that could help draw more then people would stay problem is our commissioner is not the most forward thinking person so this wont happen unless we get a new one
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Post by commissioner on Mar 7, 2018 10:40:18 GMT -6
Purely from a mercenary standpoint, a Cleveland State win might benefit the league tonight. First, CSU needs something to build their program more than Wright State does. But more than that, CSU, if they win, will be a #16 seed in the play-in game. If you win the play-in game, it counts as a win for NCAA Tournament revenue shares, just as much as any other win in the tournament. So if CSU were to win the play-in and then get slaughtered by a #1 seed in the first round, we'd get two shares.. The HL is trying to attract new members. Having one of the worst seasons ever for the conference finishing as one of the bottom 5 conferences was bad enough. Having our conference champ playing in the play in game would have been an even bigger low. That extra NCAA tournament unit isn't worth that. Sure, but we agree that they shouldn't be trying to attract new members right now. Anyway, WSU will likely be a #15 seed. It's not assured they escape a 16, but they probably do. And it will be tough for your Raiders to move up to a 14, though it is possible and more likely than a 16. |
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Post by rogobob77 on Mar 14, 2018 8:45:07 GMT -6
Don't think it would radically improve attendance, but I think HL fans across the league would be somewhat more likely to trek to Detroit for a Sunday/Monday/Tuesday formatted tournament. (I'm assuming the HL is locked into a Tuesday championship slot by ESPN considerations.)
The play-in games for the bottom four seeds could be on-campus the previous Sunday afternoon or Monday evening, meaning the 8-team MCM quarterfinal round would be cemented in place about a week earlier than MCM, adequate time for folks to make travel arrangements. If you drive up Sunday morning and leave after the game Tuesday night (possible from some HL member cities), that would only require two hotel night stays. Work out deals with downtown hotels and market to the non-Detroit visitors.
Move up the times of the semi-final games (the 9:30 PM start time for the second game on Monday needs to go). Put together some kind of attractive concert or special events on Monday or Tuesday during the day to encourage league fans to stay for the entire tournament.
Decouple the women's tournament from Detroit LCA altogether, although I wouldn't be adverse to a format that would have campus sites for the front-end of their tournament and then have the WBB semis at the LCA on Monday afternoon and then the finals as a preliminary game before the men's championship game (not a noon tip as was the case this year and last).
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Post by tommyboy on Mar 14, 2018 10:34:26 GMT -6
I think we would want to make sure the women's final was televised, too. Over the years, I have normally thought if ESPN said we play at 6am or midnight then that is when we play. I would have wanted to go to both the men and women finals ( if my teams were playing ) but, I think the atmosphere is better at campus sites.
I don't think you get the best basketball by playing 3 days in a row but, no system is perfect.
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Post by guinfan on Mar 14, 2018 12:46:40 GMT -6
Since it does appear that our championship will be on a Tuesday, I kind of like the Sun-tue format. Only problem is I don't think the league will move the women after they've been at the same site as the men. You have Wayne State down the street from LCA, but what's the chances of the women's tournament being played on a divison 2 court.
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Post by bear2020 on Jul 17, 2018 15:49:50 GMT -6
Looks like its staying in Detroit for 2019 at least.
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Post by ougrizz05 on Jul 17, 2018 16:26:20 GMT -6
Looks like its staying in Detroit for 2019 at least. I think it's a good idea for the league. Its fairly centrally located. And plus how many other brand new NBA facilities will host us like this? The largest rivalry (ticket sales) in the league are home here. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2018 18:59:10 GMT -6
I think it's a good idea for the league. Its fairly centrally located. And plus how many other brand new NBA facilities will host us like this? The largest rivalry (ticket sales) in the league are home here. And that doesn't mean jack shit when neither one of you can get past the first round of the tournament. Move the tournament to Cincinnati. NKU and WSU draw much better than any other teams in the HL AND we do advance in the tournament. There is more to do in Cincy than there is in Detroit too. No one wants to travel to Detroit. It's time to give up on that location. Not a bad idea Big D. At any rate, if Olympia re-ups for the last two years, the HL Tourney is done at LCA at the end of the contract. Cincy just might be a good place to have it. There would have to be a phenomenal jump in attendance and some great games going forward for them to even consider the HL again. |
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Post by commissioner on Jul 20, 2018 7:21:15 GMT -6
I think the location matters less than the format. You need the first round games on campus, Tuesday or Wednesday night. Then you play quarters/semis/finals on Fri/Sat/Sun, or possibly Th/Fri/Sat. If you go Fri/Sat/Sun you people can take a single day off work, or drive up Saturday for semis/finals with no time lost from work. You could even try the first 4 teams playing Thursday night. The key is to get the final off of Tuesday. Few people can stay for the weekend and through Tuesday. That means 3 days off work for fans for anybody more than a couple hours from Detroit. If ESPN won't move it, screw 'em--three must be some ability to get on TV with Fox Sports or another network.
The location doesn't matter so much. The day you move it to Cincinnati, NKU and WSU will start the suck and Detroit and Oakland will meet in the finals three years in a row. Move it to Indy and Youngstown State will unexpectedly find its groove and dominate the league. In other words, you can't base it on what teams you think might be good in a few years. The proximity of Cincy makes sense for NKU and WSU, the two best drawing teams in the league last year, but again, NKU doesn't have a strong attendance history and even WSU was up a lot last year. In other words, good draws depend in part on what teams are good (Oakland averaged more than NKU as recently as 2017, despite a smaller arena that meant NKU had two crowds of at least a 1000 more than OU's arena can even accommodate).
You've also got to consider the available arenas. In Cincy you've got to beg space from Xavier or Cincinnati to play on their campuses, or you're at the aging US Bank arena, which is in a boring part of the city--you say nobody wants to go to Detroit, but the area around LCA is MUCH more fun and has MANY more lodging, eating, and drinking options than around US Bank Arena. In summer it's a pleasant walk across the Ohio River to bars and such on the Kentucky side, but the first week in March? No. Or you can just put the tournament on NKU's home court across the river, which everyone else will say is unfair.
So Detroit, Indy, Cincinnati--I don't really care that much. But get the tournament shortened to 72 hours (maybe up to 90 if you keep first round games Thursday night) and get the final off of Tuesday.
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Post by commissioner on Jul 21, 2018 21:14:54 GMT -6
All true re WSU attendance--but your average was up a lot last year from 2017. My point is that you can't just say "well, WSU and NKU were the best drawing teams in the league last year, so put it there. It's not clear that would be the case going forward, and while that has more to do with NKU than Wright State, WSU attendance goes up and down, too.
By the way, nobody wants to travel to Cincinnati just to visit, either--or Milwaukee, Green Bay, Cleveland, Youngstown, Dayton, or Indianapolis. That leaves Chicago. And I don't think Chicago would be a good place for the HL tournament.
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Post by phoenix4 on Jul 22, 2018 9:44:00 GMT -6
Nobody wants to travel to Milwaukee??? You are way off the mark on that one.
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