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Post by ougrizz05 on Dec 13, 2017 20:48:04 GMT -6
Half the league is in the 300s. Ouch!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2017 15:37:35 GMT -6
5 games tonight. Hmmm...I see an 0-5 night! The dumpster fire of the HL continues.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2017 4:57:57 GMT -6
Yep, I called it. An 0-for-5 night in this wretched league.
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norsefan92
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Post by norsefan92 on Dec 20, 2017 10:11:13 GMT -6
NKU gave Texas A&M a scare but couldnt pull it out. The frustration about this NKU season is they keep being just one or two plays away from getting the big win and falling short. The stats models like how we play but we still havent gotten that big win. The best wins we have so far are against ETSU and Iona. But close losses to Texas A&M, Vermont, Memphis and UMBC could have been wins.
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norsefan92
Team Operations
Die Hard NKU Norse Fan and Season Ticket Holder
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Post by norsefan92 on Dec 21, 2017 7:24:44 GMT -6
Nice win for Oakland over Towson yesterday!
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Post by uicjohn on Dec 21, 2017 23:53:06 GMT -6
UIC loses again (Spoiler - you’re going to hear that A LOT this year).
At 4-8, having another typical UIC year.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 10:30:54 GMT -6
We are just a damn shame!
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Post by HLFanaticus on Dec 24, 2017 21:49:36 GMT -6
8 Missouri Valley
11 Mid-American
12 Summit League
15 WAC
20 OVC
28 HORIZON LEAGUE
Individual HL Team RPI's
87 Oakland
135 Milwaukee
136 Northern Kentucky
142 Wright State
245 Detroit Mercy
293 IUPUI
322 Green Bay
323 UIC
327 Cleveland State
346 Youngstown State
Conference play begins December 28. Conference RPIs are set. The Horizon League for '17-'18 will be the 28th ranked league in the land (maybe fall back to 29th as there are a couple more non-con games). The Summit League has, over the years, made steady and consistent Conference improvement and sit where the HL used to reside...at number 12. My how things have changed! The WAC, which some fans keep talking about imploding, has solidified itself as a middle of the pack league. The '17-'18 season which started out with so much excitement and promise, has crashed and burned as a conference and will once again be a 1-bid League.
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Post by Blackbird on Dec 24, 2017 22:59:18 GMT -6
I feel like it's worth noting that our conference should actually go up a little in the Conference RPI rankings. Most of us played a bunch of mid-majors whose records should drastically improve in their conference seasons, bumping our collective RPIs up a little. Projections only place us at 26 or 27, but it's better than 28 at least.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2017 12:14:27 GMT -6
I feel like it's worth noting that our conference should actually go up a little in the Conference RPI rankings. Most of us played a bunch of mid-majors whose records should drastically improve in their conference seasons, bumping our collective RPIs up a little. Projections only place us at 26 or 27, but it's better than 28 at least. Really? At that level of the rankings, it's all the same. We have become a low-major conference. It seems now that the one poster who was calling it like he saw it was BigDWSU. I saw it like I WANTED to see it. I would really be surprised if any school from any of the above conferences, except Fort Wayne, would join this League now. Fort Wayne would only come for geographical reasons. Based on this season, Fort Wayne would be in the upper half of the HL. This Conference has fallen 16-18 spots from its heydays of 10-12 rankings. It will take years until the HL will be a relevant mid-major League again. I truly used to be gung ho for this League, but it has broken me with its terrible coaching hires, lack of individual athletic funding and below average recruiting. So sad. |
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Dec 26, 2017 9:44:36 GMT -6
For Fort Wayne they are currently the 4th best team and the bottom of the Summit still has some dogs. Do they want to fly to Denver or Omaha to play a bad team or take a bus to Green Bay or Youngstown to play a bad team?
Plus with them being the 4th best team in the league they still have a hurdle to overcome to make the big dance. Against the HL this year they are currently 2-1 so part of coming to the Horizon is perhaps an easier road to dance. That is even harder to do when the league tournament is played in the Dakotas. At least in Detroit they can get some fans there.
As long as Oakland or NKU make the dance the league is getting a 13 to 15 seed. They won't be a 16 seed in the play in game. If anyone else takes the auto bid, well look at the bright side you can make your travel arrangements to Dayton early. Does the play in game get a full tournament share? If so perhaps it is better for the league to win that game and then get more $...LeCrone is so shrewd.
Every day for the last 8 years you can find someone on TV saying this is the end of the US bull market and a recession is coming. Eventually they will be right. When the economy does hit a recession you won't find anyone with a pie in the sky outlook on tv saying load up because it is time to make money, optimism isn't sexy in this world. I know this year sucks but I feel I am pretty realistic. I actually think the league isn't on bad footing. Right now I see Oakland, NKU, Milwaukee, Wright State and Cleveland State being in good hands. I think Green Bay and Youngstown are as well but both coaches have brought in guys that might not be good enough to play their systems at a D1 level but I will give the benefit of the doubt. Really only UIC, UDM and IUPUI need a reboot. I write that because I see lots of individually talented players but not enough discipline to win games with that talent at UIC and UDM. However, they have enough talent on both teams that they could overcome coaching. In the case of IUPUI I don't fully understand what they are trying to do but I think they have a spot at the bottom of the league secured for the foreseeable future. My point is that the league isn't totally shot and 5 to 7 teams should be good at all times going forward which is about normal.
Side note, I really like the opportunity CSU has. That hire didn't get a lot of approval but they have some talented freshman and instead of rushing their rebuild they have 6 scholarship spots opening up after this year. That is a big opportunity to reload quickly. I think Felton has been too good to blow this, he wouldn't still be around if he couldn't handle this.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Dec 26, 2017 11:26:34 GMT -6
For Fort Wayne they are currently the 4th best team and the bottom of the Summit still has some dogs. Do they want to fly to Denver or Omaha to play a bad team or take a bus to Green Bay or Youngstown to play a bad team? Plus with them being the 4th best team in the league they still have a hurdle to overcome to make the big dance. Against the HL this year they are currently 2-1 so part of coming to the Horizon is perhaps an easier road to dance. That is even harder to do when the league tournament is played in the Dakotas. At least in Detroit they can get some fans there. As long as Oakland or NKU make the dance the league is getting a 13 to 15 seed. They won't be a 16 seed in the play in game. If anyone else takes the auto bid, well look at the bright side you can make your travel arrangements to Dayton early. Does the play in game get a full tournament share? If so perhaps it is better for the league to win that game and then get more $...LeCrone is so shrewd. Every day for the last 8 years you can find someone on TV saying this is the end of the US bull market and a recession is coming. Eventually they will be right. When the economy does hit a recession you won't find anyone with a pie in the sky outlook on tv saying load up because it is time to make money, optimism isn't sexy in this world. I know this year sucks but I feel I am pretty realistic. I actually think the league isn't on bad footing. Right now I see Oakland, NKU, Milwaukee, Wright State and Cleveland State being in good hands. I think Green Bay and Youngstown are as well but both coaches have brought in guys that might not be good enough to play their systems at a D1 level but I will give the benefit of the doubt. Really only UIC, UDM and IUPUI need a reboot. I write that because I see lots of individually talented players but not enough discipline to win games with that talent at UIC and UDM. However, they have enough talent on both teams that they could overcome coaching. In the case of IUPUI I don't fully understand what they are trying to do but I think they have a spot at the bottom of the league secured for the foreseeable future. My point is that the league isn't totally shot and 5 to 7 teams should be good at all times going forward which is about normal. Side note, I really like the opportunity CSU has. That hire didn't get a lot of approval but they have some talented freshman and instead of rushing their rebuild they have 6 scholarship spots opening up after this year. That is a big opportunity to reload quickly. I think Felton has been too good to blow this, he wouldn't still be around if he couldn't handle this. The biggest problem to your whole argument is that you think the stable teams at the top of the conference are going to be willing to stick around and wait for the rest to pull their heads out of their asses. If UWM, Oakland, NKU, or Wright State had a couple of years of success do you have any doubts that they would jump ship if the MVC came calling looking for their 11-12 members. I don't. The biggest problem with your argument is that you think those 4 teams have better options. WSU has been very stable for a long time, where can they go? Milwaukee and Oakland probably aren't going anywhere either. NKU has a little shine right now but I don't think the MVC is taking them based on 4 good days in Detroit, especially when the top 3 teams were gone. They need to build their program a little bit more. Does anyone really look that attractive to the MVC? They passed on 2 HL members and didn't kick tires on the other 8. Does anyone want to go to the OVC when Murray State and possibly Belmont go to the MVC? Does anyone have the money to play in the A10? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2017 13:04:12 GMT -6
In reality gbphoenix1, quite a few teams look attractive to the MVC. All the ones Big DWSU mentioned and maybe still UIC. Their one concern is the public/private balance, which I think is very stupid. They're afraid of becoming another MCC/Horizon which started out as an all private conference and currently has only one private school in it. Milwaukee just might be starting to stabilize in their athletic department and has a good coach who's going nowhere soon. NKU is quickly rising in the Cincy market and continues to snag 3-star recruits. Wright State has a good coach and despite the current financial situation, can fill up enough seats to pull in some revenue. Oakland will be Oakland...as long as Kampe is there. Any of those teams (Oakland has only a 4,000 seat gym and is a bit of an MVC outlier, but...) would be approachable if they had some SUSTAINED SUCCESS like Big DWSU suggested.
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Dec 26, 2017 13:56:59 GMT -6
In reality gbphoenix1, quite a few teams look attractive to the MVC. All the ones Big DWSU mentioned and maybe still UIC. Their one concern is the public/private balance, which I think is very stupid. They're afraid of becoming another MCC/Horizon which started out as an all private conference and currently has only one private school in it. Milwaukee just might be starting to stabilize in their athletic department and has a good coach who's going nowhere soon. NKU is quickly rising in the Cincy market and continues to snag 3-star recruits. Wright State has a good coach and despite the current financial situation, can fill up enough seats to pull in some revenue. Oakland will be Oakland...as long as Kampe is there. Any of those teams (Oakland has only a 4,000 seat gym and is a bit of an MVC outlier, but...) would be approachable if they had some SUSTAINED SUCCESS like Big DWSU suggested. The MVC passed on UIC and then doesn't look at them during the Wichita State back fill, they will get a look now? I doubt it. If the MVC expands it seems like Murray State is getting a spot. Milwaukee was on the list last time. Why didn't they grab both when they could...here is why, they don't want Milwaukee. Milwaukee has a public relations problem, an athletic department money problem and nobody pays attention to them in Milwaukee. WSU and Oakland have been the same for awhile. They weren't on the list either time, what changed to put them on the list now? I would submit that nothing has changed and therefore they aren't on the list. In the case of WSU, they have the fans base and facilities, they actually need money and real success. I can't see the other school presidents excited about an institution with a money problem and hoops fans being excited by a team that has been good but not great for a long time. NKU has momentum and could be a logical candidate if Murray St gets the call. They have momentum but they are still a risk as they don't have a track record at the D1 level. Green Bay has been running a better program than most of the league and right up there with Oakland. They aren't on the list either. The Valley is trying to grow after losing two flag ship brands in Creighton and Wichita State. They aren't settling for after thoughts. Murray State, NMSU, GCU, Dayton, SLU are the types of programs they want. I am not saying they will get two of them but they are going to aim high and not settle. To the point of the HL expanding to expand, what does WSU, UIC or Milwaukee really do for the MVC? The Valley took Loyola with no recent sustained success. They took them because of what they could do. They renovated their arena, they put money into their program. They hired a legit head coach. Mix in that they were a private school with decent success at other sports, they had their financial house in order and have a wide variety of academic offerings. They tick a lot of boxes. To move up to the Valley requires a commitment beyond what the Horizon League requires. Who in the HL is making that commitment now or could make that in the immediate future? Maybe the MVC does take one team, just to get to 12 with Murray State and be done with it. I don't think they will settle but maybe they do. The other 9 HL teams don't have a ton of options so the teams that don't have their stuff together better do so. As I originally stated I think we are waiting on 3 programs right now but I am optimistic the league can be on an up trend with 7 solid members. |
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Post by gbphoenix1 on Dec 26, 2017 15:28:49 GMT -6
I don't need to have you validate what I do and don't know but thanks for trying.
Contact, that doesn't mean much and it certainly doesn't mean they are interested. They didn't do extended due diligence on most so how do you explain that away?
In so many different ways in this world people are contacted but it doesn't mean anything. Recruiters call employees of other companies. People swipe right on their phone if they think you are cute. Kids send highlight videos to coaches or coaches send letters to young kids when they have a few big games. Normal students take tours to many schools or apply to several knowing they only really want one. Companies send out targeted mailings or mine your social media to send out ads that have a better chance of resonating with you. The list of ways to be contacted can go on and on but it doesn't always mean interest has been conveyed.
What does this contact mean? Likely that they wanted to show they had a process. They didn't pick their final 4 out of the blue. This contact could also be a case of putting out feelers to see who might be interested in the future. This contact could be a form of telling institutions what they need to do to improve. Here is what this really means in real terms based on how things played out. NKU, Oakland, and WSU are not good enough fits to go through the process or at least not likely to be accepted and saved face by deciding not to go through the process. Milwaukee and UIC are not good enough after going through the process.
So I will ask again, what are these schools doing to be good enough? I will ask again, where will they go if they can't get to the MVC? I will ask a new question, how long will the MVC wait for them to be good enough? Will Murray State still be good by the time that happens?
While the HL members who are doing fine sit around and wait to be the fish that swims next to Murray State. I am sure other programs are building their resume and "contacting" the MVC. I am sure the MVC is showing off their conference rating and history of moving teams up to big time leagues and trying to "contact" better programs.
This is a fluid situation and the actions speaker louder than words last year.
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